bellemontagne

Buyer pays shipping on all items. Let me know if you are interested!! * Karhu Catamount skis have been sold * REI Mountain Axe has been sold * Tricams have been sold * Aiders have been sold DaKine HeliPro Snowboard Pack, Red, Size Large - $35 Grivel G12 step-in crampomatic crampons, include antibotts, bag, and point protectors, used only on one trip - $60 Harmony Sea Kayak sprayskirt, red, coated nylon, adjustable, will fit a large coaming (used with a Necky Zoar Sport) - $30 OR Gore-Tex seam taped Modular Mitts Size XL - $15 Alpina BC2000 backcountry XC ski boots, for use with NNN backcountry bindings, Euro size 43, used VERY LITTLE - $70 ($215 NEW!!!) Rottefella NNN Backcountry automatic XC ski bindings - $25 Rossignol SIS Step-in snowboard boots, US Size 10, 2 years old, very similar to the new Rossignol Sublime FM - $65 Rossignol SIS Step in bindings with highback, 2 years old, similar to the newer Rossignol SIS systems - $50 [ 09-04-2002, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: bellemontagne ]

Don't forget the American Safe Climbing Association . Recently the ASCA made funds available for bolt replacement at Smith (among MANY other locations).

quote: I've also eaten a slug or two in my time...have you? Trask - are you referring to one of your, ummm, concubines??? Or... do you mean you've actually eaten a slug???

I'll be coming by late... just in time to figure out where your'e going for brews... I had a great paddling trip in the Central Cascades this past weekend - I'll bring pictures. Be prepared to tell us about 11worth.

Mtn Tools Web-o-Lette's rock. A spool of Maxim Tech Cord or 25' of 5.5mm BD Gemini II (They're both the same material-Technora). Just be sure to read this: Comparative Cord Strength Tests

Response from PMI: Sorry for the delay regarding you question. I have been busy collect information on the topic and I think you will be happy to know what I have found out. First and foremost let me start with the fact that PMI's black marked ropes have been thoroughly tested and are perfectly safe. Second, TEC Markers (by Sharpie) have also been thoroughly tested and are perfectly safe. *TEC stands for Trace Element Control It is true that some middle marked ropes have been tested and that they showed a decrease in the number of falls that could be taken. However that was true ONLY when the marked spot was positioned exactly at the bending point. A marked rope would NOT loose number of drops held if any other part of the rope was placed at the bending point. Please also note that a product containing PHENOL should not be used to mark your rope. It is know to damage nylon. Thanks, Wendy Wendy Grimes Sales and Service Manager Pigeon Mountain Industries wgrimes@pmirope.com 1-800-282-7673 ext. 269 [ 08-07-2002, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: bellemontagne ]

Response from Scott Newell at BlueWater Dear Tyler, I apologize for the delay in responding. I wanted to revisit this with the UIAA delegate and had to wait for his return to the office. I have attached the a document for your review. The product was a Sharpie. I have always told people not to use this pen for rope marking. The pen even has a warning "do not use on cloth" printed on the side. I have re conducted testing with other pens as well as the bW marker. Granted it may not be as dark or last as long as a Sharpie but it is safe to use. Keep in mind that many things can weaken a rope to some degree. Please feel free to contact me if you have further questions. Thanks for your e mail. Regards, Scott Newell MARKING OF ROPES That marking a climbing rope with a felt pen can damage it was first reported in 1998. The German Alpine Cub tested a Sharpie felt pen (made in USA and sold in Germany), which apparently was advertised for use on climbing ropes (to mark the middle of the rope, for instance). In the tests the ropes were marked and the marked area was placed at the orifice plate in the standard UIAA drop test. Five unmarked samples held 10 - 12 falls, while three marked samples held 6 - 8 falls. This information was published at that time in the Gazette of The Alpine Club of Canada as well as in The American Alpine News. Last year this topic re-appeared on the Internet as well as in Climbing and Rock & Ice. In both magazines the use of felt pens was recommended for the (middle) marking of ropes, while the Internet correspondence centered on the damage. The press, despite being told about the possible damage, did nothing about it. Among the users there was doubt about the sources of the information. Last year two rope manufacturers (Lanex and Mammut) and the German Alpine Club visited this problem again. Various samples of non-dry and superdry rope were tested using a variety of felt pens (Sharpie was not among them). Testing was done seven to 30 days after application. Reduction varied from zero to 50 % in the number of drops held. Superdry ropes generally had less capacity reduction than non-dry, possibly because the saturation was less. However, one particular rope sample had an insignificant increase in capacity for the non-dry rope, but a 35 % reduction for the superdry. This rope, by the way, was the only one, which did not have a reduction in capacity for both the non-dry and superdry sample. Middle markings, which come with a new rope and were applied by the manufacturer, are safe. Do rope manufacturers sell trustworthy markers? Mammut tested the "Rope Marker", a pen sold by Beal. The reduction was 50 % for the non-dry and 17 % for the superdry rope. Mammut tested five days and four weeks after application. The capacity reduction was more for tests done four weeks after application. Sanford, the manufacturer of the Sharpie pens, will apparently not guarantee a consistent product. The ingredients of the pen may vary. There is no "standard" formula for the chemicals that are contained in the markers. The company has also stated that "Sanford will not endorse or in any way recommend use of these markers for rope climbing (sic), and will not accept liabilities, which may arise from its use." The recommendation: do not mark your rope with any kind of felt pen. Water-soluble acrylic paints are apparently safe. No information is available how long they stay on. The bottom line: (for a rope, which would be safe under normal circumstances) there is a risk when the marked area is loaded by a fall over an edge. Who buys lottery tickets?

Response from Pit Schubert at the UIAA: Short answer - First of all: We - the UIAA Safety Commission - created yesterday a paper concerning rope marking which is enclosed. Second: A damaged rope by marking is not a big problem, because such a marked rope can not break in practice (only when tested on the test machine according to the standards, UIAA and EN (CEN)), such a marked rope can only break in practice when the two or three Centimeter (about one inch), which are marked, are placed over a sharp rock edge when the rope is loaded by a fall. The probability that this will happen is nearly zero. To give you an impression: Amongst German and Austrian climbers happened during the last 19 (!) years one - only one (!) rope failure by a fall, the rope failed because loaded over a sharp edge - once again: during the last 19 (!) years one (!) rope failer and this under the cirmcumstances of hundred thousends of falls each year (sport climbing). Once again: The probability that the two or three Centimeters will be loaded by a fall over a sharp rock edge is nearly zero. - So no fear against a rope failure, also when the rope is damaged by a marker - I worked out this and other knowledge about rope failures during 32 years, I made thousends of fall tests, but all this knowledge is not well known, only few experts are informed. - Best regards Pit Schubert (President of the UIAA Safety Commission) UIAA UNION INTERNATIONALE DES ASSOCIATIONS D’ALPINISME THE INTERNATIONAL MOUNTAINEERING AND CLIMBING FEDERATION Pit Schubert, President of the UIAA Safety Commission Erler Strasse 22, A-6342 Niederndorf / Austria TEL & FAX: 0043-5373-61365 e-mail: p.schubert@a1.net Notification concerning Rope Marking issued: April 2002 Tests done by the UIAA Safety Commission and by some rope manufacturers have shown that rope marking with liquids such as those provided by felt-tipped pens can be dangerous, even with those markers, sold specifically for marking ropes. The test results showed a decrease up to approximately 50% of the rope strength, more correctly: of the energy absorption capacity of the rope (expressed by the number of falls in the standard test method in accordance with the European Standard EN 892). Therefore the UIAA Safety Commission warns against marking a rope with any substance that has not been specifically approved by the rope manufacturer of that rope. It is not possible for the UIAA Safety Commission to test all markers that are commercially available and can be used for marking ropes. Furthermore it would be impossible for the UIAA Safety Commission to keep such information up-to-date. In addition, the effect of any rope marker seems to vary with the make of rope. Hence, all the UIAA Safety Commission can do at the moment is to warn mountaineers and climbers. The UIAA Safety Commission will carry out further research into this problem to provide practical advice to climbers. Pit Schubert Neville McMillan Carlo Zanantoni President Vice President Technical Director

Personally, I use a Blue Water rope pen (I believe it has soy ink). Of all the experts I have spoken to, they have said this marker should not be a problem. The biggest concern with using a permanent marker is that the manufacturers cannot guarantee the chemical composition in the marker. The folks at Sanford do have a model called TEC (Trace Element Control) whose composition is GUARANTEED and is safe for ropes. This TEC marker is exactly what PMI uses to mark the middle of their ropes. I investigated this issue considerably going so far as to write BD, PMI, BlueWater, and the UIAA, and I would be more than happy to post their responses in a separate post...

http://www.smithrock.com/bbs/messages/644.html

Hey kids it's Pub Club time again... This Wednesday. 6:30 PM at the Columns. Be there or else...

I echo Timm@y and Allison's sentiments about the Bend Brewery. The Deschutes is way overrated! During peak Bachelor season it takes for friggin ever to get a table. I think one time the wait was over an hour and a half! Eventually we smartened up and started going to the Bend Brewery-a wise decision...

Go for it SK. REI rents ice axes, or you could borrow my 65cm axe and crampons (I don't think you'll need them though). Have fun kids!!

It seems like the whole point of trad climbing is to do it from the ground up. If you're placing gear on rappel, then it's not trad climbing - it should be SPORT (or wanker climbing). Beth Rodden did some 5.13 "trad" climb in Colorado that was publicized in one of the magazines some months ago. Turned out she lead it on preplaced gear! Not to mention, other men and women led the crack before from the ground up. I can't remember the name of the route, but I think a woman even onsited it... Burly. I think part of this trend towards preplacing gear on hard trad climbs is so that climbers can get their names in the climbing media. It's a lot easier to climb a hard trad route on preplaced gear than spending the time (or simply having the skill to onsite the route) to work out the sequence so you can do a ground up lead. If climbers get their names in the media more often, then they are more likely to get sponsorships - therefore more $$$$$. Even though preplaced draws on sport routes is the "tradition" at some areas like smith, I always thought of it as kinda lame. A climber who can clip the bolts on lead is a lot burlier than the one that climbs on preplaced draws. I'm a TOTAL gumby climber these days, but I find it amusing that people do things to bring the climb down to their level (like chipping, gluing, preplacing draws, etc, etc). If the climb is above your abilities, you don't HAVE TO climb it. It's not the end of the world if you cannot climb that "one" route...

Hope you had fun last night...

Hmmm, favorite routes... Smith Rock: Spiderman The third pitch of Superslab (the first two pitches are kinda sucky, but the third pitch makes it all worth it) The free rappel off of the Karate Wall Flagstone: Toy Box (the route itself isn't the highlight-it's the view from the top of the second and third pitches) Harp of Stone (maybe one day I can climb the route without having a take) What's My Line (maybe one day I'll actually be able to finish the route) Obed/Clear Creek: Most of the routes were totally above my head, but the surroundings are absolutely beautiful. And maybe one day I'll head to the Tetons and Yosemite/Tuolumne - then my favorites will change forever. [ 08-04-2002, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: bellemontagne ]

quote: How about an inflatable hardman An inflatable hardman is NEVER a substitute for quality horsecock!!! Horsecock. Rememeber ladies, never leave home without it... [ 08-04-2002, 12:13 AM: Message edited by: bellemontagne ]

Ask Mark Ashworth, the Tvedt's, the Fralick brothers, or talk to Bill the next time you see him at the columns. I hear rumors of new areas going up, but people simply are not willing to share... There's a number of stuff south of Eugene. The cimber's Guide to Southwest Oregon is the best source. If you're lookin for sport, there is a plethora of opportunity for bolt clipping at the Callahan's just outside of Roseburg. Locally, no one talks much about the Buddha Spires located in the Fall Creek vicinity. I've never made it out there, but the rock is like a welded mudstone. All the climbs are bolted sport routes. My understanding is that there isn't a lot of route development, but there is a ton of potential! Oh, and I'm sure you already know about Bill Soule's place... Two oftenly overlooked Willamette Valley classics are Wolf Rock and the Menagerie. Wolf Rock (the largest freestanding face in Oregon-I believe) is mostly adventure climbing, but it does have some bolted face And the Menagerie is ALL TRAD! Keep your ear to the ground! And feel free to share your findings...

quote: -No, wait...a libertarian is a republican that wants to smoke pot. Friggin hilarious!!!! So true....

I'm just glad to hear everyone made it back down relatively safe and sound. A frequent quote I hear about Mount Washington is the route your partner climbs will be different than the route you just climbed. Hopefully as soon as I get my knees taken care of, I will make Mount Washington my first foray into true mountaineering. A friend of mine was up on Three Fingered Jack last year and got caught up in a logjam of climbers. A group of four (two guys and their girlfriends) ahead of them had decided to setup a toprope on the final section that leads to the summit. Interestingly the two girls had never climbed before, and this time toproping was their FIRST TIME CLIMBING - PERIOD. Sometimes I find some people's judgement and stupidity un-frgging-believeable...;

Okay kids. Here's the Eugene Pub Club schedule for August and September. 6:30 PM August 7th and 21st September 4th and 18th As far as post climbing endulgences go, let's play it by ear and just decide where we want to go after we're done climbing (like we've been doing) We may want to start meeting a little earlier in September if we are going to climb before hand (less light). This is less of an issue in October since we'll all be indoors because of rain. Lemme know what you think.

quote: mmmm Kay. Me and Mr. Hanky would be into a carpool How many times do I have to tell you... there is no such thing as Mr Hankey the Christmas Poop. Just admit it Tex: your a fecophiliac on prozac

Hey are any Eugeneans up for getting a carpool together and driving up to PDX to see ths show??

Actually, a good place to practice your prussiking would be on the lower part of the Elliot glacier on Mount Hood. The first few crevasses are usually pretty easy to access, and there is not too much of a risk of falling in if you stick to the very lower reaches of the glacier. This is the same area where some of the guide services do their crevasse rescue courses. Now as far as self arrests go...

Snafflehounds are bad... mmmmmkay?