Terminal_Gravity

GT, I assume that you read about my experience with "Red". Is he still around on the board? Thanks [ 08-21-2002, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

Nice Job, glad you had fun. Cheers.

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: TGis right at the top and I believe iresponsible at the bottom. Take this quote:"...because gear fails, ussually because of human errors or improper use, but it fails." Simply it is absurd. Imagine you are in a car heading toward a wall and stepped on the gas not the brakes. TG would call it gear failure! Enough on this. To encourage some unknown person that they solo to get rid of anxiety fear while climbing is just plain reckless. I can't tell you how to not be fearful maybe it is a good thing you are,maybe it is just a short lived phase. I once on a several week climbing trip I went from climbing 5.10 trad fairly consistantly to backing off a well protected 5.7 because I was scared. My partners thought I was going crazy and where somewhat irritated I was wasting their time backing off route after route. Fortunately for the rest of our trip they had fun leading and I had fun following. After awhile I was back to leading and eventually lead harder and more difficult to protect climbs than I had ever climbed before. I say relax and climb and try not to force the issue. PP PP, maybe you are right. Maybe it is irresponsible to have suggested it, but it worked for me. I don't feel that I should have to include a manufacture's warning to one of these posts. It has been said before that ultimately we are all responsible for our actions. I would hope that shakey can learn from my shared experience and make his own decisions based on his knowledge of himself. as far as your example...no, clearly the car failed to keep from hitting the wall because of human error just as if someone rap's off the end of a rope it is not the ropes fault... but the result is the same.

quote: Originally posted by Greg W: If it hasn't been mentioned before: aid climb on toprope; this will help you develop confidence in your gear placements. Greg W I agree.

In my opinion the "falling is okay" or "fall on pro to learn to trust it" approach that several posters condon is sheer folly. (Sport exepted) I have taken over 20 trad falls, one grounder when a piece popped and I broke an ankle once when a piece held. Falling is NOT okay. Learn to NOT fall! The gear is a back-up. You, your focus, and your experience should be the primary part of climbing safely. Why do you think most fatal accidents happen on rappel...because gear fails, ussually because of human errors or improper use, but it fails. That is the one thing that you can count on. It is a fact of climbing that must be excepted. So, Shakey, here is my suggestion. It has worked for me. Free solo. Yes, you read it right and it might sound crazy. But if you do it right, take baby steps, climb known rock way way under your ability, solid and short at first, you will learn focus and confidence and you should develope the skill of mental calmness. When I now lead and place a solid piece I get this rush of "wow that is so cool..Protection; what a concept".

I agree with you iain. That mirrors my thoughts as well. I should have said that I would NOT want a precedent set. I can imagine, however, where gross negligence in the mountains could create a triable case. I expect it has happened, but I tend not to pay attention to such crap and just try to have a good time and climb. BTW, I've climbed the south side regular route on Hood a few times during peak season and have had the summit to myself. I just make sure I'm back down to the top of Palmer by 2:00 am at the latest. PS Thanks for the support, Mountainman...I knew My post would not be popular. [ 08-13-2002, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

Galen's photos, style and ethics was probably the biggest single influence for me when I started climbing. Tragic. I'm at a loss for words

Frankly, if somebody's actions cause injury or death of another the question of leagal culpibility is apropriate. If somebody that does not know how to drive or is incapable runs over innocent bystanders at a bus stop there is leagle responsibility if it can be shown that they knew they couldn't drive. This has happened in Florida with old people losing there faculties as they get older and driving anyway..and killing people. I am not saying that the people on Hood that precipitated the accident were so inexperienced and stupid for being there that they should be charged. I don't know, but some of the postings on this board suggested that they were way to inexperienced. (that is saying it lightly) That being said, I am not sure I would want a leagal precident like this being set. But I, for one, don't like gumbies above me adding to my subjective exposure and I feel that when stupid actions kill people there should be some consequences for the perpetrators.

Nice picture mattp, thanks. Any possibility you could E-mail it to me? tgbsteve@eoni.com jedi, when are you heading up there? I may be on it around 9/17. The above posters are correct about Robson. The south face/swartz ledges made me turn with tail between my legs last year on a solo attempt.

quote: Originally posted by iain: quote:Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: Isn't threading the rope directly through webbing a commonly regarded no-no? I don't see any problem with it if you are just doing a single rappel. It also spares you the task of threading the rope through a ring (you can just tie the webbing over the midpoint). I've done it plenty of times. It's those stupid punks who lower in that setup who get themselves killed. Anyone disagree w/ me? I absolutely agree with you. WTF? Sure there will be more friction, but if that is not a problem so what!? The webbing may not be suitable for the next team after you pull through, though.

My dumbest thing I've ever done and close to the dumbest I've heard of was attempting to climb the nose (El Cap) with a guy I had never climbed with based on his reputation and self proclaimed ability. And to top it off he wanted to invite a friend at the last minute, who ( as it turned out) had never led, jumared or top roped anything harder than 5.8. I acctually led (and hauled) every pitch and got 11 pitches up (in 2 days...slow beyond belief) before I finally grasped reality and gave it up. As a side note; this "experienced yosimite hardman" droped our un-opened liter of Jack Daniels from sickle while pulling out the sleeping bags the first night. The gentle breeze wafting up the face let me smell the whiskey most of the night from where it broke 20 feet down. Doh!! Rappeling into the dark we ended up spending the night on a 8" by 4 foot ledge. My butt was numb for days.

What's your opinion? I think that being poor and from Yugoslavia, he had the motivation to lie, so he could get financial benifit and support his family. He has publicly stated that he will not compromise his family's well being for climbing. It seems that it would be an easy stretch to compromise honesty. Of course he is a visionary and brilliant climber anyway and maybe us lowly cc'ers should not even discuss it.

thelawgodess. Be safe and have fun! Be aware of the surprise hole; that should be more of a concern than the known bridge. Give a TR when you get back. BTW, which route?

quote: Originally posted by Dru: i bought a bosch power drill from mr. headspace... it works well... Classic Spray Lord Troll.

quote: Originally posted by Roger: Does this extend to mere wankers, or just the exalted lords of spray?[/QB] PM me when you reach "chief wanker" & we'll talk.

quote: Originally posted by allison: ... Porkland. No worries A. The boat is safe & sound in my distributor's warehouse. Pick it up whenever you like. Her name is Xanadu and will be one of the nicest and most responsive flatwater canoes around if you replace the mahogany gunnels and give her a new gel coat and don't over load her. Klikatat makes enthusiast boats.

quote: Originally posted by freeclimb9: If you want to hear about a bad experience, I recently traveled through Enterprise Oregon, and found the local drinking establishment CLOSED! WTF? It was 10:30AM already! WTF?! Freeclimb, you should have given me a heads-up. My offer of free beer to cc.sprayers is still good.

I should add... I have never had a known bridge to fail on me that I was not able to jump or plant my axe in away that I could avoid falling in. If there is any question as to its safety, I first see if there is a safe alternative ignoring the trudge line. There almost always is even if the alternative is a bit more technically challenging. If not I carefully asses the strength, probe, stab, press with my basket or axe head, see if the bottom is sluffing a bit when pre-weighted, critically look at the connection between the cravasse wall and the bridge. Is it loose wind deposit or is it consolidated snow that has compressed as the bridge has settled into a tappering cravasse. IMO the most suspect is when one ( or rarely both ) walls of ice diverge away from the lip. Once I digest all of my assesments I decide if the risk is worth it. Soloing, I am always prepared to turn around or go another completely different way. Then I carefully, and gingerly step accross, avoiding the weakest point. I hold my axe High, wrist in strap, ready to jump and plant at any shift or sign of failure. Even if you do self belay with a tight rope you are likely to fall aways into the cravasse as the rope tightens and cuts into the snow. Make sure you don't injure yourself in that fall. Screwing around with the trigger of an ascender or holding a rope is going to make it less likely that you avoid falling in if the bridge fails. As in rock climbing, I never plan to fall and do what ever it takes to avoid it. The sport-hangdog ethos does not belong in the head of an alpinest.

tlg, I am not recommending against self belay across a suspect bridge but you should be realistic. It is true that if you are effecient self belay does not take a whole lot of time to set up. But it is still not fool proof and will require a fair amount of extra weight which will slow you down ( a bit) the rest of the time and make it ever so slightly more likely to punch through a surprise bridge. In the Cascades I think that it saves time to be commited to end running suspect bridges and not be lulled into the false security of following the trudge line.

Yeah Caveman, the cam thing was totally cool. You were honest and upfront about it, things change, no big deal. I'd forgotten about it. Mikeadam sold me a down jacket that got lost in the mail. (probably ended up on some gangbangers back - his suggestion). He was honest and forthright about it and offered to give me half the money back. Totally cool - shit happens - no big deal. He was honerable. The truth is, I 've got more important things in life than to worry about $40 or some old pair of boots. It just chaps my hide that this sniviling shit lied. My attitude is: Break stupid laws, fight the larry the tool's of the world. Climb when, where and how you want to as long as you leave the outdoors as close as you can to how you found them. But DON'T cheat or steal from fellow climbers and give those who do no quarter!

I've used this forum to buy & sell several things. I think it's a great resource. Most of the deals have been without hitches, but I've had a few bad experiences. Share yours so that we can all be better informed shoppers. Recently, I sold Allison a canoe and promised to get it to pdx so she could pick it up. For several reasons I had trouble getting it there and I'm sure she's a bit pissed at me. I finnally got it there and ended up giving it to her for free because I felt so bad. I hope she forgives me. But my worst experience was with this little fucker with the avatar name of "RED" from Yakima (I think) his real name is Brian Green. I paid the postage and sent him a pretty nice pair of older double boots. The verbal deal was $40 (cheap) plus postage if he liked them or he was to send me the boots back and give me the postage. This was back in December. After several months and several phone calls ( my dime) he gave some lame excuse and said he would send them back. Never happened. More phone calls and un-answered Pm's I finally told him off and said just send me $30 bucks and we would go away NOT friends. No check a month later! I called again and he said his mom sent me the check; Yeah right. One more promise from the piece of shit dick breath and I still don't have my boots or the $. If anybody knows this turd tell him I might just shoot him in his sleep. A 9mm cap is alot less money than more phone calls. Sorry, it's just that I can't take lying bastards. Anybody have other stories to warn the un-wary?? [ 08-02-2002, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

Well said, Norman

quote: Originally posted by payaso: It's Quality versus Quantity my friend. Cool Payaso. My intent is to say that quantity does not nessasarily (never could spell that word) mean that you have to give up quality. As an example: My local gang of psuedo climber's have been talking about this seven peak traverse in the Wallowas for more than a year. You know the type...they always are saying "I've always wanted to do 'this or that' some day" as they sit around drinking beer. I don't mean to chest beat here, I'm really just an overweight geezer, but I do acctually get out. The talk was no one had heard of anybody doing it car-to-car in a day and they knew of only one person doing it from a high camp. I had only Sat. evening to Sunday afternoon free the weekend before last and thought "what the hell". I left my rig at 4:45pm and made the first summit for a spectacular sunset with the moon getting brighter and glistening off the ridge. Close to the 4th summit I sat down to watch the moonlight reflected on a lake below. It was tremendiously beautiful. Later after a bit of 5th class scrambeling I was comeing down the steep ridge of the 7th and got the treat of seeing the blood red (from fires) hyper-enlarged moon set between distant spires. I slept for about a half an hour on some dicey and loose 4th class ledges; waiting for first light. The sunrise was spectacular, pinking up the peaks to the west. I was back home eating pork chops and eggs and drinking Ramos fizzes at 8:30 am. How is that hike lacking in qualitity? And I still got to play with my daughter both days on the weekend. I haven't even mentioned to the gang of poser at my pub that I did it. They help me support my tequila habit and I really don't want them to give up afternoons of drinking beer and acctually go climbing.

I'm not sure I understand the points about moving like a snail so that you can see more beauty. I see a MORE of beautiful terrain BECAUSE I travel fast and far. If I do 50 in a day and can get out 3 days later for a quick peak bag and then for a night hike to watch the reflection of the moon rise over a lake from high on a distant ridge the following weekend. How is it that am I seeing less than someone that plans for months to take a week from work & family to lug a pack the same 50. And don't give me that quality vs. quantity bullshit either.

quote: Originally posted by fleblebleb: You might look at the Wickwire book for the first chapter though, it has some insights into solo glacier travel. It also gives some insight to roped glacier travel. [ 08-02-2002, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]