chelle

Gee Greg. Do we women have to teach you everything? Next time use a seat cover or place some TP on the seat.

Better than growing up in some orphanage or without two people that love them whole-heartedly. The gov't and tons of psychologists have studied this issue. People of gay parents adopted or not are well adjusted individuals (at least as well as the general population) and don't end up becoming gay because they're copying their "parents" behavior. That belief shows no understanding of the complex issues that underly sexual identity. But what else should I expect from people who grew up in society/culture where by and large sex is a dirty sin only meant for procreation. Spend some time in Europe where they are more open about sexuality in general and there is not nearly as much hate about sexual orientation as in the US.

Agreed. I don't think he was saying that it would be wrong to ban gay marriages. Just pointing out some history about some of the reasons the gov't got into the marriage business to begin with. And I agree completely with Josh's second point.

Goddamn Josh! An intelligent post from you!!! In a perfect world the government wouldn't have to get involved in marriage or any other contract because people would just live up to their commitments. Not fully related, but proves a point about doing the right thing in the absense of gov't intervention...Until back in the early 70s companies did not have to pay anything to survivors of spouses who had fully earned a pension and died early. They just kept the money and left the widow and children to fend for themselves. Now there are laws to protect their interest in their spouses pensions. Josh, x-ternal and anyone else who thinks that the gov't doesn't need to be involved in marriage needs to do some reading about women's rights and try to see things from something other than some romantic naiave viewpoint. And religion has nothing to do with marriage for a lot of people in this world. From what I understand marriage as a contract establishes a legal obligation for any debts of the other person entered into during the union (and the sharing of any financial gains) and also makes them obligated to financially support any children that may come from the union. Divorce laws are also set up to protect the women and children from getting nothing from a man who chooses to walk out on obligations. Which is how it was back when women didn't have the same legal entitlements they do today. I agree with OW and E-rock on this one. People who commit to eachother long-term should share in the same legal rights as those who enter into a marriage contract. Straight people have this already through common-law marriage. Gay people should have the same benefits. Another one to add to E-rock's list is the right to visit a loved one in the hospital if visitations are limited to "family-only". Gay people shouldn't have to lie about their relationship and pretend they are brothers/sisters or cousins in order to support a sick person.

Fairweather - I've seen the video. Agreed it was balanced and nuetral in it's opinion and thought provoking. I don't mind them spraying BT on my food, it is a natural toxin that can be washed off, much better than harsh chemicals that ruin groundwater. However, I do object very strongly to them inserting the BT gene into my corn, potatoes or any other food to control the pest. I think it is pretty dangerouse to start f'ing with the gene pool that has developed over so many millions of years. The scientists are playing god IMO, and much of their tinkering wouldn't be "necessary" if the corporate farmers who rape and pillage the environment in the name of efficiecy and profit didn't fuck it up so badly in the first place.

Nice work AG. What were you climbing?

ehmmic, how do you know where Salida is? Grew up in Modesto, city of "Water (poisoned/polluted), wealth (only if you're a Gallo), Contentment (maybe), Health (see note re: water)"

Good Luck Dwayner! We're all rooting for you to win the title. Trask will be too distracted by the hottie to be a serious contender. Hey trask - that's a much better avatar photo than the last Suidcide...Just do it! one. Thanks for changing it.

Beck - I don't think these two things are mutually exclusive. Don't get me wrong because I really appreciate what you're doing to pull this together, but I'd hate to see the rope up become some stale social event dominated by signing waivers and requests for money from the AAC and Access Fund (I already donate) with limited opportunity for fun and frolic. Can we still climb at night by the full moon after enjoying a few beers or will that be in violation of someone's insurance? Can we still take over Castle Rock and Pearly Gates en masse or will that be considered poor stewardship? Can we watch AlpineK's entertaining way of starting a campfire?

This is a tacky thing to do. Do you take up the time of people working in the store? You deserve REI. Also, the owner flipped my wife soime serious attitude once when she was trying to buy vegan boots. "You're putting other people's lives at risk by wearing those boots." Forgive me...what are vegan boots? Boots without animal products?

Just got a note from the AAC and it looks like our little rope up event is going to be legit this year. Co-sponsors, trail projects, slide shows, free beer (well we had that last year too - thanks TG). Wow! Hey Jon and Timm@y when is this going up on the Events board?

I'm curious what their argument is...what did Roe vs. Wade have to do with it? Because they're trying him for 2 murders? The baby was 8.5 months in gestation it is considered viable and therefore an independent life. Doesn't Roe v. Wade allow right to choose in only 1st semester and early 2nd semester situations? Totally different issue. If they're trying to drag this in I'd like to hear more. Last I heard Petersen said the Satinic cults killed her.

We saw a pretty good Frontline program on GM foods in my nutrition class during winter quarter. Gives some of the history and lays out the debate of how the whole mess got started. GM is in a lot more places than you realize because of the labeling (lack of that is). Most corn, soy and some potatoes are GM. My impression about the US food market is that unless you buy certified organic food you can assume there is some level of GM in what you are eating. You can probably find it at the public library if you're interested. The producers (Monsantos and the like) argue that it is safe. Has caused no health problems that they know of. They fail to admit that there is no mechanism for tracking digestive or allergic illnesses that may be caused by GM foods and gathering data about GM effects on people's health. Personally I can only eat organic bananas because the regular ones make my mouth itch and upset my stomach. In the Frontline program they talked about how they'd been working on modifying them and I think we're the guinea pigs on whether it's a good thing...

Sorta related to the topic...Did anyone read the article in the back of the latest Climbing Epics issue? Guy from BC wrote a story about how he neglected his family and other stuff to climb because it made him feel...but then realized he needed to find God and could focus on what is in his life, not what he could get through climbing... I must have missed something in the story or he left out some details because it just didn't make sense that you could all of a sudden have an epiphany and not need to climb and all your porblems wouldbe solved. He sort of made a subtle statement climbing/climbers are shallow if they are passionate about it. Maybe I am just in the dark though.

Where can I get one of these?!?

Problem Dan is that you live in Salida. You gotta move further east to Ripon -- "The City of Action" Yeah...we all gotta get of this board and get our more.

You laugh, but I'm planning to shell out for a comfy Coleman tent before my next trip to c4. My 4 season tent fly got too much sap on it during the last trip. I'd rather trash some cheap tent big enough for a bouldering pad. Have fun on the road. I'm a little jealous.

TLG -Keep your crash pad if you have room for it in the car. I'm always jealous of people who have them for use as a sleeping pad in the tent. After tent camping in Yos for a few weeks (can't avaoid the tool there after awhile) I really want a comfy bed. D32 - LOVE the new avatar pic. Classic!

Keeping the rubber side down in a pack traveling 30+mph also takes some complex coordination. That guy at the oregonian is an idiot!

Tex - maybe they should present the awards at the fall rope-up in October.

Hey Fence & Kiwi -- Is there some sort of North end pub club going on tonight?

Gave up orgnized team sports in elementary school because I sucked at both baseball and basketball. But in high school discovered another sort of pseudo team sport -- track and loved it. Climbing was something I'd done since I was about 8 and scrambled up the big rocks around the area (easly bouldering for kids with little hands) we camped outside Desolation Wilderness in the Sierra. Didn't discover roped climbing until after high school and didn't know anyone who climbed and could teach me until I was in my mid-20s, after I tried triathlons and got into mountain biking. I was way less coordinated before I started rock climbing and definately not as strong as I am now. I like that it really isn't overtly competitive, but there is competition... with myself and sometimes I am more motivated to push myself harder because of what my friends can already do, which I guess is sorta competing with others. It's a great life pursuit and I love hearing about people who crank in their "older" years.

I ride a Bianchi and love it. Components are way old Shimano since it's 10 years old now, so I can't comment on the current stuff. If you can afford a hand built machine go for it.

ChucK- he must have a head. The hood is not floppy. I think the issue is the missing face. Maybe the invisible man has gone sporty to improve his image. (or lack thereof).

Barry's Resoles down in California has done a great job for me. I'll have to look up the info for ya.