fleblebleb

Heh, trask was a penguin not a child, it's autobiographical. It's totally revealing too, didn't the penguin climb into the freezer? Almost like ice climbing?

Not only would you be missed 30 seconds, you would start being missed within 30 seconds from leaving because the silence would get so embarrassing. Plus how could we do without all that beta?

Off the top of my head - I'd guess that if a post that has already been replied to is deleted then the database becomes inconsistent because the replies now refer to a non-existent thread identifier. If this is true then posts should be deleted in the reverse order of posting, but can't be deleted if there is already a reply that should be kept. The deletion code might deal with this as a special case that results in DELETED BY. A better solution might be to simply point the zombie replies to the first post in the thread. Gee, you'd think I get enough computer stuff elsewhere but apparently not.

Meat first babe with both coats. Take off outer coat and put aside. Meat second babe with inner coat. Turn outer coat inside out and put back on. Meat third babe. Methinks you did more silly math tricks in college than you met babes.

You didn't happen to notice that eventually about 9 out of 10 posters had two stars did you? Let the game end

Alrighty, no beta in spray then. I guess I wasn't very attached to my post, because I pretty much can't remember what it was about But if I remember correctly then it was intended to convey that posts like the one or two Chepe made don't have any meaningful substance. So in effect I was trying to get the thread not to devolve, which is what I usually do (outside of spray that is). I think Ade probably deleted my post because it made absolutely no sense after Chepe's posts were deleted, which is consistent with the moderation policy. This policy of cascading deletes is not very good though, because nobody likes to see the DELETED BY comments. The natural reaction is to ask what that stuff could have been, that the reader for some reason needs to be protected from. I think a better solution is as follows: - Split the thread being moderated o The signal stays in the same place o The noise becomes a new thread in the spray forum - Add a post in the signal thread with a link to the new thread and the screen name of the moderator The new thread in spray is completely inconsistent but nobody cares because it was just meaningless spray anyway - otherwise it shouldn't be moderated in the first place. It's possible that UBBThreads don't let threads be split very easily - I don't know because UBBThreads isn't freeware so I have never played with it other than as a participant in this board.

I just got moderated by Ade after making one (1) sarcastic post in the ice conditions forum. If I remember correctly I didn't even swear. Anywayz, I suddenly discovered that I have very little tolerance for getting moderated myself, so I have a greater sympathy with Ray than I did before. I've got a couple of suggestions - (1) Matt should give Ade some moderation lessons, (2) the moderators should learn to move posts instead of leaving those DELETED BY comments which just wreck the threads, and (3) the rest of us can just post beta in the spray section until things are straightened out. After all, in spray anything goes.

Ah yes, this thread is clearly coming to a horrible fate, what with Chepe's two posts of gibberish and my one post of sarcasm, and the comparison of grading conventions in the Cascades and the Rockies. The signal to noise ratio here is what, still more than 10:1? Lighten up, this moderation stuff could get ridiculous. Cleaning up a thread that has pages of spray is entirely different than microscopically deleting a post here and a post there.

I know! We should just have one big happy thread for all the posts!

So, was it a hip belay or a bowline around the waist? Come on Perkins, tell us!?

Troll I think I understood your post, and if I did then I disagree. It's all good though. Anywayz, I'm not sure what makes the two of us the right people to argue about it - unless you have done that hike that goes along the way of the Ptarmigans in 1938... I certainly haven't done the Ptarmigan Traverse, no matter the interpretation. Cheers man

Dumpster, you're definitely free to apply route names any way you like. It's only unfortunate for yourself if you insist on applying route names differently than others. It will just prevent you from being understood. In a way the insistence on nothing other than the original itinerary qualifying for the route name is kind of like insisting that alpine rock routes can only be done by using the exact same holds and sequences the first ascensionists used. The recession of glaciers and other environmental changes also play. The Ptarmigans probably spent more time on glaciers on their trips than we could now if maintaining the same pace. The traverse goes from A to B, it's the detours that climb the mountains and they're fun, but not quintessential to doing the traverse.

I also want to know how Matt managed to fail a belay test. What did you do, use a hip belay?

Check with Amber, she should know.

Post deleted by Ade

My point was partly that since the four Ptarmigans left their gear, none of their climbs were actually a part of their traverse. The Ptarmigan's traverse wasn't technical, their detours were. Compare for example with Alex Bertulis' and Half Zantop's traverse of the Pickets in the sixties, which entailed going over the peaks without returning to their gear - as far as I know.

LOL Repeating the original trip in a day is not humanly possible. The four Ptarmigans took 13 days. They climbed Johannesberg, the North Face of Buckner, the Dome peak-to-peak traverse and a soup of other peaks. I believe they didn't carry over at any time, they probably climbed packless. Mostly, their trip consisted of doing a part of the traverse on one day, then climbing adjacent peaks on the next day, then moving on. They did at least two days when they climbed three peaks in a day. Some of those peaks were Spider, Formidable, Magic, I don't really remember exactly. After they reached Cascade Pass and climbed Buckner I think they had been out for nine days and they took another four days to hike back to where they left their car. Harvey Manning wrote an article about their trip a long time ago, which is where I know this from (although I may not be repeating things accurately, because I don't have the article here). When planning a one day repeat, keep in mind that the Ptarmigans themselves had to bivi before getting off of Johannesberg. Also, their exact itinerary has probably not been repeated by anyone, in a day or otherwise. The summer of 1938 was apparently very, very dry, and the Ptarmigans got little rain if any. The "Ptarmigan Traverse" now refers to the hike or ski from Cascade Pass down to the Suiattle River Road. To me, the logical response when somebody says they just did it is, "Wow, good job! How many peaks did you climb?" Or, if you want to be nice you could go for "Wow, did you also climb any peaks?" I want to have at it again next summer or spring, if anybody is interested. I tried last summer with Wayne and some others and we were stormed off by a full-on blizzard after hiking for only half a day. This was on the 4th of July. I'm very impressed by the two guys who jogged it in 15 hours, I'd like to be able to do that myself.

Duh. Before saying stuff open and close your mouth three times while thinking things over. Debating bolting in a valley with a ski resort, a parking lot for several hundred cars that fills up most weekends, a ton of vacation houses or whatever they are, the biggest highway in the state, and piss and shit on the innumerable trails at no more than 50 yard intervals, is just plain silly. It's not like the bolts are for protecting routes that could do without them either.

Yeah, that was exactly the spot Ray! I lead up to it with Tim simulclimbing a ropelength below me, and the only pieces I had were a stopper 30' below the step, a completely worthless picket I had put in further down mostly to see how it felt, and a bush down by Tim. If the "ice" had fallen off the step when I pulled on the tools I would have ridden 60' to the stopper, and I had been unable to determine whether it was sitting between two solid rocks or a solid rock and a loose block. If it had blown I would have gone for a 300' ride onto a waist-high bush, probably pulling it and Tim along with me and ending up in Chair basin. Not my game. So I downclimbed back to the stopper, equalized it with another stopper and put a screamer on the result, but still couldn't shake the concern with the block. I had tried putting a pin close to there which was kind of interesting - placed it halfway, whacked it once and it disappeared into the crack up to the eye as the crack widened. Then I went sideways to the right and put in a three piece anchor (two stoppers and a cam) and brought Tim up and he gave me a belay. I debated whether to try going straight up the slurpee on the step or go to the far left and bash snow and verglas directly below the trees. There was absolutely no option 10' left though, not that I could see. I climbed over to the left but before starting the steep section Tim pulled me back and we decided to go down. All in all it was a fun time though, interesting lesson in when not to climb snow and ice

Matt is effortlessly cool. Spray is fun in spray. Spray is a nuisance in route reports and ruins a route reports thread once it starts accumulating. Nobody (except Matt) should take this personally at all, it's just no fun to read through a route reports thread and suddenly run into a long string of name-calling posts with zero content. One or two posts is OK but what's with everybody always having to have the last word? An additional concern is that it is so much more difficult to search through threads from previous years when threads can't live for more than a few pages before going bad. If somebody searches for Chair next year then they'll find a bunch of threads from this year where one would probably be nicer.

Blagh yech yugh. Mashed potatos and slurpee anyone? TimL and I tried Chair NE Butt today but backed off at the step about 3/4 up. There was no ice to swing at or put screws in anywhere on the entire climb. An Abalakov in what we have up there now, when pigs fly. But at the rate the step was melting out today it doesn't surprise me that it was good to rap from last Friday. Snow pro in the crap is a joke, not very funny though. There is a big boot track up the entire middle snow slope, not what I was hoping to be climbing really. The couloir at the bottom was a lot of fun though, up to the lowest trees. If you want to go for it you probably can, the step we retreated from could have been climbed either by going straight up over the bulge (super carefully - don't blame me if it all falls off with you on it) and it could also be bypassed on the left on a steep ramp of snow and verglas (same warning). No pro within 30-40 feet of either though, unless you try digging for it and get lucky.

LOL - fucking classic. Stop trying to kill the spray crackhead. Can't believe Dwayner went all nice all of a sudden. What's the world coming to?

Plastics and VB socks in the lower 48? A good sturdy leather boot with a half shank will be nicely waterproof if you apply some wax. Add a pair of wool-blend socks and aluminum crampons and you're set to go.

Fridays are also great for stumbling around in circles in the dark. In fact any day that begins with an alpine start following a bout of insomnia and coughing fits is great for stumbling around in circles in the dark. Woo-hoo!

Hah! Two stars for you