willstrickland

quote: Originally posted by pope: Retro mentioned the the Bandaloop Dance Troupe.... What a fascinating and colorful juxtaposition of the performing arts with climbing's adrenaline pumping exposure! Is that what it's about? And here I was thinking it was just hottie limber ballerina style climber chicks enticing me with the ritual mating dance. I saw bandaloop way up on El cap? somewhere...might have called it project bag-o-poop that being the case.

Every anchor is different so every situation is different. Learn all the methods you can and make your own decision based on the situation at hand. "All guides do it this way" doesn't hold sway for me because I climb with much different protocols when guiding than when on personal outings. And with a zillion variations for each personal outing. Spectra daises have a breaking strength of much higher than 800lbs, for standard nylon it may well be that low, I don't know because I don't use nylon daisies. As long as you don't cross clip the daisy loops they are every bit as bomber as the sling or cordelette you put on the anchor. Think about how you would escape the belay anytime you get set-up on an anchor, the optimal length from you to the anchor point, who will lead the next pitch, etc. The bowline on a bight is a convienient way to tie off to the anchors, it's easily equalized, strong, and doesn't use much rope or any slings. It does require swinging leads or swapping rope ends though. Safe is safe and overkill is overkill, do what the situation calls for... When moving fast on a grade IV where I know we are swinging leads: if I hit a two bolt anchor I almost always clip the daisy into one piece, throw a biner on each piece, tie off the bowline on a bight and belay off my harness through a directional either on one of the anchor points or off a high loop in my daisy. This allows a slight safety margin (if the rope gets chopped you're still connected to something), and if you're follower somehow takes a big fall (maybe rope gets stuck and you can't take in slack and they fall while trying to climb to the stuck point) then the stitching in the daisy loops provide a sort of screamer for the anchor. It's also fast and requires little fumbling with gear. Just throwing in my $1.23

quote: Originally posted by lizard brain: I can't help but think that some day things are going to pendulum in the other direction. Years from now people will be looking for bolt-free climbing areas to give themselves a chance to really test their climbing skills. Here's my slant on that: Now that the companies and mags (aka the Marketing Forces) have made climbing somewhat mainstream and gotten all these new people involved through the relavtively simple pursuits of sport and gym climbing and bouldering they'll start making their move. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that trad or wall climbing requires much more gear (and hence generates much more money). It's already happended with ice climbing, now start running all these stories about how cool big walling is and how rad the trad climbers are...EUREKA! A surge in sales of trad and wall gear and a boon for the Market Forces...shops, manufactuers, and mags. Just wait, it will happen.

Re: the adjustable fifi You can get basically the same effect by using "lazy chains" which are adjustable daisies, but they will start to slip after a while and require replacement. The advantage of this is one less piece in the aid-climbing cluster as well as eliminating the the hook (which snags things and requires moving in and out of pieces) altogther. Almost everyone I know who has tried the lazy chain method loves it. The adjustable aiders are another story, not recommended by anoyone I know who's tried them.

quote: Originally posted by Beck: A nice set of legs doesn't hurt, though! Unless she squeezes too hard....

Ever try stemming in one aider? Listen to Dru. I'd recommend "ladder" style over "alternating" style aiders, but that's mostly a personal choice.

quote: Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: Will: I was hoping to read a comment from you about my original posting. I didn't comment because I basically agree with what you wrote. However, I do believe that the term "environmental damage" in this argument goes beyond the destruction of the physical rock and contains the element of destruction of the aesthetics. Bolts are ugly, so is chalk...chalk washes off. Some will call me a hypocrite because I say if you can't climb it (established routes) without adding bolts then stay off it, yet I go out and climb wall routes that have chicken bolts added or rivet and bolt ladders on them. I've never added a fixed piece to an established route intentionally (I've had passive pieces that I couldn't clean and one cam that welded when I fell on it) but I have used the chicken bolts. I clipped the new bolt on Kor-Ingalls, I also clipped that first bolt on Serenity crack. Does that make me a hypocrite? Maybe, but I do it my way, you do it yours...and if you come in my back yard and retro-bolt something just because you can't get up it in the same or better style than the FA, then expect it to get chopped. Here's a little story of how I went from a passive dislike of bolting to an active one: I worked a short,hard crag route in Alabama that was originally done with pre-placed trad pro. My goal was to do it placing the pro on lead. This route is only about 40 ft, but the climbing is hard and sustained (I don't generally use ratings in posts here, but maybe numbers will put this into perspective...the route is 5.12b R, the crux sequences both involve big dynos over brass nuts). I worked it on top rope for a few days, mixing it in with my other climbing. I worked out the sequences the first day, fired it clean on TR the second day. On the third day of work a week later I just worked it looking for the most feasible stances to place the gear and exactly what gear to place where. It was only going to accept three pieces of gear and two of these were being placed from very pumpy stances. Falling while placing the first or second pieces would mean groundfall. About a week later I went back and put in several ascents on TR stopping to place the gear over the course of a weekend. I felt ready and made a plan to come back the next weekend with my most trusted partner, to do one TR ascent, rest and wait until conditions were cool in the late afternoon. Forecast was for rain the next weekend so we stayed close to home (it never rained). Mid week we roll over there and I'm just amped, sweating and nervous before we even get out of the parking lot. I was psyched, nobody around but us, this could be my finest accomplishment or put me in the hospital and we'd soon find out. We walk up to the pinnacle that the route is on and I drop my pack and start gearing up. My partner suddenly goes "Holy shit, what the f$&*# is that?!" Some bastard had retrobolted the line as well as the three other lines adjacent to it. Needless to say I was pissed, and although I probably could have got on it and just done my thing ignoring the bolts, it destroyed that psyche I had going and I knew without the right frame of mind I could not do the route safely (or at all). After the inital anger wore off I examined the bolts...the stupid bastard didn't even place them in good places for clipping (I was scoping them from the ground). We did some bouldering, climbed a few easy classics, then went into town. We bought a wrench and hacksaw, grabbed the claw hammer and prybar in my partner's rig and chopped the line and one of the adjacent lines (as far as I knew at the time the other two were FA's by the bolt-whore, later I found out they were also retro-jobs). We show up next weekend and the little bolt-whore had re-bolted it. We didn't have the chopping gear so we did other stuff and went home. I left the southeast soon after for grad school and never did the route. If you are ever climbing at Sandrock, AL the route is Called Tales from the Hard Side and is located on the Holiday Block.

quote: Originally posted by Juneriver: I, too, am curious about the Moondance.... So, what is it? A Van Morrison song...Am7 to Bm7 repeat for the verse...

Uhhh, well uhhh I'm a stalker? No, I mean she gave it to me?(the picture you dirty bastards). Uhhh it wasn't me that posted that? I know the photographers at Maxim? Yeah all of the above.... And where the hell is Rachael anyway Maxim? Steph is rad, but most accomplished female rock climber? Does the name Lynn Hill ring a bell...

quote: Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: I have not purchased a Freind since I found out that Jardine was a hold chopping muther fucker. Pope have you? Not trying to antagonize here TG, but Jardine sold the rights to the design a long long time ago, I think your sentiment is a little misplaced. Jardine is a asshole for chipping that...but what about Lynn using the chipped holds on her "free" ascent of the Nose (I think Lynn is awesome, but shouldn't that be The Nose VI 5.13+ A0?)

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: Holly, Lets get one of you up there too!

quote: Originally posted by lambone: What a sellout I thought she climbed for Sterling anyway. get overyourself Steph. Uhh 'Bone, that'd be Maxim the magazine, not Maxim the rope maker (which is actually New England Ropes btw)

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: When caching gear "Danimal" discovered that bug juice is a good lubricator for cams that have been sitting in the wilderness Just remember this...DEET, the active ingredient in most repellants, will slowly degrade synthetic fabrics like the slings on those cams...think twice before using this strategy. I'm not saying not to do it, just know all the issues beforehand. For me the best way to lighten up is to just go continuous push. Aside from that particularly in the winter, use snow shelters, and climb with a female...one bag, spoon-up. For alot of the mellow alpine climbs where it's just easy ice and steep snow with not much rock a 30m piece of 8.8 in place of a regular rope can cut a good 5 lbs off the weight...but again know that they are not designed for use as a single rope.

While many people will tell you that placing gear is "not rocket science" there are many mistakes beginning trad climbers make. Nuts flipping out of placements or zippering, cams walking out of place and becoming useless or placed behind features they might pry off, the American death triangle anchor slinging, ludicrous rope drag, and more fun bungles await the uninstructed newbie. Qualified instruction, either from a guide, a university program, a club, or a mentor will greatly increase your learning curve and safety margin. Read the books: Freedom of the Hills (Graydon Ed.), Climbing Anchors (Long), More Climbing Anchors (Long), Self Rescue (Faustalo sp?). Practice placing top-rope anchors with nothing but gear. Clean-aiding with a top-rope belay is very useful for learning to place gear. Finally, lead ALOT at grades that do not challenge your climbing ability, adhere to the adage "Never challege yourself in climbing ability and protection ability at the same time", and understand that trad climbs of a given grade are generally much harder than sport climbs of the same grade (start a good four NUMBER grades below what you can onsight on sport routes...i.e you flash 5.8 at Smith, start on 5.4 trad). You may feel silly on the 5.4's but you'll have solid protection skills by the time you work up to grades that challenge your climbing skills.

I think I share alot of your sentiment. While some of my most memorable climbs have been hard (for me), even more have been easy. Is concern over numbers always an ego issue? I personally don't think so. One of my goals in climbing is to climb Astroman clean. To me that means I need to be solid at a certain grade to be able to pull it off and not be sketching all over the place. Astroman is certainly a respected climb, but it's not like I'm cranking Love Supreme, Phoenix, etc. Not many people are impressed by a "mere .11c". Same deal with the Salathe...you don't need to climb that hard to get up it, but you damn well better not blow it on the 5.9R chimney sections (unless you wanna carry some #5's camalots and #4 big bros). To get the most out of a route I like to feel solid but challenged. To just scrape by is cool sometimes, maybe while finally firing that boulder problem you've been working, or if you're a sport monkey finally finishing that project that's a couple of grades above your personal best. My preferred MO is onsighting long free routes and scraping by sometimes means not quite scraping by...easy for me on crag routes, whatever...lower and try again or get on something else, but eight pitches off the ground you might NEED to fire that awkward slot or flaring crack to enjoy the rest of the route. I guess what I'm saying is I don't care how hard you climb, the only bearing it has on anything is whether we can partner on a particular route and/or who might lead which pitches. I care about how hard I climb only in relation to being able to climb cool routes that require climbing at a certain level. I look at what I see as the coolest routes in the country, things like Astroman, the Primrose Dihedrals,Monkeyfinger, the Rostrum, Fine Jade, and plenty on the Diamond and Tetons, and they require a certain ability...not world class ability or bragging rights ability but you get the point.

quote: Originally posted by Rafael H: OK, now list them. Seriously. Only please leave the Vantage Choss alone. List the costs or list the bolted cracks? Costs: 4ft Crowbar $40 Wall Hammer $70 60m Static $100 Epoxy $10 per route MiniHacksaw $15 Saw blades $10 Labor(minwage)$15

Holly, I doubt your feet are this big but, US Outdoor Store in Portland has Mirages in: 39, 39.5, 40, 40.5, 41, 41.5, 42 e-me if you need contact info.

Holly, Try this: http://www.climbnorthwall.com/web/LAmirage.htm

What a clusterf#$&*.....might as well add to it: Mysticfishtaco: If you really want to get some good hands-on pro placement practice then get on a pitch you can clean aid that starts a pitch or two off the ground. Be certain you have a bomber anchor and aid the pitch. Repeat ad infinitum. An ideal pitch would be slightly overhanging and on a clean (no mid-pitch ledges or protruding horns,flakes,etc) wall. You'll place five times more gear on each pitch than you would place while leading it free. You'll be forced to deal with weird pro situations, you'll learn the limitations or particular types of gear. And, you'll eventually become a fast aid climber which will be the ticket when you want to do a mellow wall route like the Nose or the Reg route on Half Dome. You'd be amazed at the amount of long routes you can do leading at no higher than 5.10 and aiding two or three pitches or parts of pitches. As for the question of what makes a sport route? Kinda one of those "I can't explain it, but I know it when I see it deals" And the Bachar-Yerian a sport-route? Oh, I get it..a joke

quote: Originally posted by lambone: Will, Are you suggesting that cam hooks would be a viable alternative as pro for a runout free route? Sounds pretty sketchy to me...you ever whip onto a cam hook before? Aliens don't fit in blade seems. Ball-nuts might though. B] Ay 'bone indeed I have whipped onto a camhook, in Zion's Navajo sandstone no less and...it HELD...much to my suprise I must say No, aliens don't fit blade seams, but I don't take it for granted that a self-proclaimed sport climber (the guy's buddy)would know the difference between a blade and an LA. Also, maybe there's a pod or shallow placement somewhere adjacent to the blade placements that is not conducive to taking a pin, but would take a black alien or 00 TCU. I've got the smallest two ballnut sizes and they're more like small LA sizes. Another possibility is to use hand placed Pika Toucan cam blades (I'm not suggesting this as a long term solution, just trying to stir the mental juices for those who have the balls to go clean)In a beat out blade crack you can take two of them, one with a left-bend and one a right-bend, stack them, equalize them and eureka...pro that inspires you not to fall.

Nah Dude, as the weather gets colder your odds go up, to a point anyway...Just think increased friction from low temps and get on something slopey/smeary

quote: Originally posted by Bronco: ...the Robots don't have cam stops which means you can't use them for passive pro. I dont know why you would haul cams around only to use them as passive pro... Because when you run across that pod that flares inward and you know that cam will walk into it and eventually tip out,you'll be damn glad that you can umbrella that cam and use it for pro. I've placed alot of cams in exactly this scenario when there wasn't another option.

Inexpensive, quality cams? I got a deal for ya: Metolius #3-10 (8 cams) #3-8 fatties, #9,10 stds, barely used, no lead falls: $280 WS

I think you gotta ask yourself a few questions: 1. Is the route a 3-star with memorable moves, or just another line? (If it's not a GREAT route, just abandon it and leave well enough alone) 2. Have you checked out the route, preferably on rappell where you can hang out and survey the line, to see if there are alternate gear placement? (Maybe those pins were placed before there were 0.33 aliens, or maybe you could "protect" the moves with a crafty cam-hook placement). 3. What is the nature of the area (sport, trad, mixed?) and what is your skill level with respect to placing a bolt properly? (The last thing we need is more time-bomb bolts littering the crag and needing replacement or removal a few years later if they even last that long). YMMV, WS