Fairweather

Cj, That's a good program, but what about schools in low income areas, or those without wealthy benefactors? Are they just SOL? One might conclude that the illustration you used blows the "level playing field" cliche to pieces. ...and what if that 1.2 million were spent on books or tech upgrades instead? Just a thought.

Matt, This is the classic bureaucrat bullshit argument; "now... you see....that money comes from that piggy bank over there....but this poor piggy over here is just starving...." Ok, now you're trying to put words in my mouth. At no time did I state that the education my kids are getting is sub standard. My original point was to counter Alpine K's ridiculous quip that Peter Puget "didn't care about education...." simply because he questioned how his taxes are spent. Nice try though...this is just a classic MattP tactic.

AK, ...more reading for the research-impaired: * At the federal, state, and local level combined, America spends more for K-12 education than it does for defense. And if you count spending on higher education, vocational training, special education, and other educational programs, the amount the nation spends is more than twice the entire defense budget. * Since 1965, the federal government has spent more than $321 billion on K-12 education. At every level of government combined, America has spent more than $10 trillion on K-12 education over the last century. Total spending at all levels of government for K-12 education is more than $470 billion this school year. * More than 35 years after Congress passed the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA), public school spending per pupil has more than doubled – even when adjusted for inflation – from $3,331 per student in 1965 to $8,194 per student in 2000-01.

You must get all your info from the NEA junk mailers you receive. Did you read the link I provided? Biased, for sure - but I don't see you contributing stats, or anything more to this debate than hyperbole or worse. BTW, I have two kids currently in K-12. I may be more in touch with these issues than the average childless Seattle liberal. Tacoma is in the process of replacing all of their aging high schools. The current project, Mount Tahoma HS, is a grand sight! Artistic brick inlays thruought, great glass cupolas, and a stadium with a pair of grandstands that would make an NFL program proud. The whole spectacle makes even my liberal-Democrat father-in-law shake his head in disgust. Schools aren't cheap. I realize this. But aren't these priorities just a bit askew?

I see you still manage to demagogue issues, if not well. Tell me, AK - exactly how has PP demonstrated that he is 'against' public education? Federal education spending has increased 118% since FY 1996. Why don't you tell us all, Alpine K; how much $$ is enough? I have recently toured several Washington State college campuses with my university-bound daughter. At each there were major construction/expansion projects underway. One in particular was very impressive: At WWU the new english dept. building is clad in brilliant, shining copper ($$$! wow!), the new non varsity gym has a state-of-the-art rock climbing wall, elevated track, and latest high-tech workout equipment. The new campus security building, with its massive timber beams, looks like a giant alpine chalet. I'm having a really hard time understanding the "underfunding education" argument. http://edworkforce.house.gov/issues/108th/education/funding/budgetfactsheet020403.htm

Damn. Nice trip! :^saluting graemlin:^

Nice belay knife you're sportin' there. ...a 'Kershaw Amphibian', I believe. Nice pics too.

Nice! Cool looking mountain too! I've had Iliamna Volcano (to the south) on my short list for some time now...does that guy fly into that peak too? I'd love to see those pics that didn't load on the first try. Throwing all your gear down a 3500 foot couloir! That's classic!

I'm so confused.... I've never smoked a cigarette in my life. I hate the government telling adults what they can/can't do with their bodies. I like the smell of fresh second hand smoke. I hate the smell of stale smoke in my hair and clothes when I leave the Naches Tavern. I don't believe that 50,000 people die each year from second hand smoke. The health care - taxpayer cost argument is old...and dangerous. Could, and is being used to restrict freedom. Girls who smoke are easier to get into bed. (So I've heard!) People who work in taverns have a right to work in a smoke free environment...so they should find a job in a place where smokers don't traditionally gather. How much $$$ do low income families spend on cigarettes each year? ....While their children eat canned pork and beans? WHY DO SMOKERS THINK THE WHOLE WORLD IS THEIR FUCKING ASH TRAY? It seems clear that tobacco companies manipulated nicotine levels in their cigarettes to addict more people to a potentially lethal product. Those responsible for this should be in prison, or worse. What has happened to all of the tobacco "settlement money"? New cars and perks for state bureaucrats, I suspect. I've seen climbers light up on the summit of Rainier a few times...and I'm truly impressed. But I suspect I'll still be climbing well into my seventies, and I doubt that many smokers will be. Again; their choice. Iwo Jima didn't kill my grandfather; lung cancer did in 1980 at the age of 68. When I was a child I used to ask him why he smoked. His reply was always the same, "I don't smoke...the cigarette does!"

LISTEN TO YOURSELVES! You guys sound like a bunch of the same conspiracy wackos you derided just a few short years ago. ...reminds me of the "FDR knew about the Pearl Harbor attack in advance" conspiracy theory. What utter garbage. Catbird, I expect this from the others here...but you too?

...spoken like a true intellectual leftist. A real academic you are, j_b.

Actually, my thanks for the raw link was sincere, but I know your narrow mind is probably incapable of expressing both praise and contempt for the same person...or understanding how such could be directed at you. Your world view contaminates your view of the individual. As for the mercenary statement, I believe your intent was clear in your first post.

Tele_nut Stay safe. j_b Your description of tele as a "mercenary" was a way out of line...but I'm rarely surprised by your anti-everything/everyone-American tripe. The story/interview was OK. Thankyou for posting the raw link, versus the standard "click here". I refuse to link to an undescribed site from the left.

GOWANS CANNOT VOTE!! HE IS NOT A CITIZEN, THUS, HE MUST SIMPLY RANT AND SHAKE HIS FISTS. MEANWHILE, HE TAKES ADVANTAGE OF THE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES OF THIS COUNTRY WHICH HE CANNOT FIND IN HIS OWN. GregW, I wonder how our political rants would be received in Scotland. You and I in Scatland, non citizens, on a Scotish climbing web site, bragging about how fast we could hike up Ben Nevis (with our track scholarships in hand) and how shitty the current Scot govenment leaders were. Or how great Tony Blair was. Do you suppose some of the other scotish citizens/climbers on the board would consider us rude? Arrogant? Would they question our qualifications or motives as non voting guests in their country?? We've been down this road before. JGowans....bite me. Then STFU! Or better yet, keep preaching to the choir here. You're really making a difference!

http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/olympic/news/index.htm My faith in the folks at ONP and ONF is restored. Good faith efforts to maintain traditional access have been ongoing (East Fork Quinalt, High Bridge repairs, and now Dosewallips), with individual public comments being given even handed consideration, not just special interest groups being "invited" to enter the public record. (ie: Mt Baker Snoqualmie NF, Middle Fork Snoqualmie debacle.) A big thanks to the folks at Olympic National Forest and Olympic NP! Pro access minded hikers and climbers should express their appreciation via letter or email IMO. I will certainly be doing so. Yahoooo!

j_b For once we may actually agree. Exxon was, and apparently still is the epitome of the 'evil corporation'. To this day, I refuse to put their gas in my vehicle. They need to pay up, and finish cleaning up their mess. A seperate question, but I'm just curious where the political lines blur ..... High gas prices: Good, or bad?

Hamas is not interested in peace with Israel. The Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel. Hamas has killed not only innocent Israelis, but Palestinians willing to persue peace/compromise with the Israeli state. Hamas has sabotaged every attempt at a workable peace. They don't want 'just' the West Bank and Gaza, they want the whole of what is now Israel. How do you make peace with a group that wants you to just dieand is IN NO WAY interested in compromise? Answer...you don't. Sharon acted properly, and continues to do what he must to protect his citizens. If that upsets western europe, or the american left, too bad. BTW, let's not forget how/why Israel came to occupy the west bank (and Golan Heights). They were attacked by Jordan, Egypt, and Syria as I recall.

One of the more popular claims of the western left prior to the Iraq war was that 'five thousand children per month' were dying under UN sanctions. (Even while Saddam was building palaces, and UN and French government officials were skimming huge sums of money from the oil-for-food program!) It has now been 12 months since we removed Saddam from power, so is it fair to assume that we have saved 60,000 Iraqi children to date, and untold more into the future? Shall we subtract these salvaged lives from those we were forced to take while removing the bastards Saddam, Uday, and Kusay, and claim a net gain of lives saved? By the very logic that the anti-american left employs, have we not actually saved lives? I'm not trying to distill Iraqi human lives down to mere statistics, but even when you remove all the humanity from the equation, don't those on the left lose the argument? Flame away you lefty bastards.

No one died when Timmy lied.

Doesn't bother me a bit, junior. Dole was as exciting as a piece of Melba toast...never had a chance. But just for the sake of semantic clearity, Clinton did not receive more than 50% of the popular vote versus HW Bush, hence a 'majority', or I believe, versus Dole. (I'll have to investigate the latter.) Hey, shouldn't you be lounging in New Zealand on daddy's dime right now? How many of those jet-a bottles did you end up tossing into the burn can?

I believe that I did answer your question as thoroughly as possible given the fact that I mostly discount your premise, "what is your major problem with Kosovo...." Regarding Kosovo, you freely admit that you "know very little about that episode in our 'history'", and yet you have attempted to draw comparisons to it with the situation in Iraq. Might I respectfully suggest that you investigate this 'episode' further? As the Balkans versus Iraq go, and Bill Clinton aside, there is much hypocricy to go around, and the UN, EU, and American anti-war liberals have all taken a pretty good slice of it. IMHO, of course.

Nice attempt to sneak away from your original premise Matt, but we should revisit your first post that stated, in effect, 'all is well in Kosovo'. We did not act as 'peacekeepers' in Kosovo. We took the side of ethnic Albanians who were just as dirty as the Serbs vis a vis their 'terrorist-like' tactics and penchant for dishing out brutal violence on innocents, and who had a rather weak claim to the title of 'nation' within the borders of the former Yugoslovia. We, at the behest of the EU and our NATO 'obligations', took sides. In the process we helped eliminate a pretty stinky ex-commie dictator, and I have no major problem with that. Let's face it though; the region is a big pressure cooker that will likely explode again, and who do you suppose the French, Germans and others will ask for help in solving this reemerging disaster? The comparisons that can be drawn regarding Iraq and Kosovo are tenuous at best IMO, but then it was you who originally attempted to make the comparison of a perceived success in Kosovo versus a perceived failure in Iraq. Any comments on the news story? Are you going to now cite degrees of violence and claim that one is worse than the other? At least j_b and Sexual Chocolate show a solid consistency in their arguments.

Murray said As for the EU, those NATO troops in Kosovo are from Germany, France, Britain, and Italy - the EU, in other words - as well as an American contingent. There are also forces from Canada, the Netherlands, and various other countries. If they've been as ineffective as you claim, then the blame falls as much on the American contingent as any other. Perhaps you'd prefer that everyone withdraw and let the massacres resume? After all, the intervention has been less than perfectly effective, so we might as well just give up altogether, right? Or do you have a solution in mind beyond just slagging the various countries that are trying their damnedest to resolve an incredibly complex problem? If so, I'm sure we'd all love to hear it. Tell me Murray....which UN contingent stepped aside in Bosnia and let the Serbians slaughter thousands in the UN declared safe haven of Srebrenica? (Hint: it wasn't the US) And while you're at it, would you please describe for us all how Slobidan has turned his Hague trial into a circus/laughing stock and revealed the farce that would be the international court? Let's talk about how the EU used NATO to cleanse europe of an evil dictator, but stuck their noses in the air when it came time to deal with Saddam. Let's talk about how the EU had no problem bombing Belgrade without UN support... Regardless, my original comments were only presented in response to Mattp's naive statement to the effect that 'all is well in Kosovo'.

OK, ya got me there. I never heard it though...and as you know, I'm a regular listener. Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that Kosovo is still a mess, the UN is not effective there, The EU is not willing to police their own back yard, and Mattp still has no clue about world affairs.

McCain is a good man, but he is one of "The Keating Five" involved in the savings & loan scandal back in the late 80's/early 90's(?). His political enemies (both Dem and Republican) would rightfully use this to destroy him. He would, however, make a great vice prez for Jeb Bush in '08!