Fairweather

Did you read the original article/post? Sounds to me like it's a few lefty scientists that are doin' the . The morality is irrelevant. As you know, sex research has always been difficult to distill. I was just pointing out the obvious and suggesting common ground. And Cj: The roadless rule was clearly a case where the politics were put before the science. "Here's what we want to do to pay back our $$$ environmental $$$ supporters. Now go out and bring me the science I need to support this idea!"

I'll give you that. But both sides do it. This is why it's important for the political pendulum to continue its natural balance. What those of you on the left are asking for is a science-policy neutral government that will throw human-needs out of the equation, and it's just not gonna' happen. Didn't happen under Clinton (Kyoto, roadless rules), won't happen under Bush...or the next administration, likely Democratic.

How do you STOP?

Maybe the trust is waning because too many 'scientists' don't follow method and inject their own politics into their research? I'm no fan of the religious right, but let's face it; the left is just as zealous and often resorts to ends-justifies-means tactics. http://news.theolympian.com/outdoors/wildlife/156961.shtml

It wasn't really that cold. Just snowing for the last 500 feet or so. We spent the next day climbing in Mazama on warm dry rock.

My brother and I biked up to Cutthroat lake and Cutthroat Pass last October for a 3000 foot climb. Brutal. On the descent, I would stop every 10 minutes just to pry my knuckles back into the straight position such was my grip on the brake levers. Let me know about Mt Muller! I love the north peninsula. I just put new carbon fiber bars and new cassette on my bike with a 34 low gear. I'm ready to sit & spin!

I'm not sure where Mt Muller is. What's it like? My bike is an old Trek 8000 with front suspension only, and while I'm perfectly willing to throw myself down the side of a volcano, I'm too old for jumps, see-saws, catwalks or other man-made obstacles! Mount Adams. We may need to put a large group together just to raise the odds someone will survive to tell the tale.

No one knows for sure, but it appears the earth gets bombarded by asteroids or comets about ever 62-65 million years. It could be that our sun has an unseen and distant companion (brown dwarf) star that periodically dislodges massive comets from the Oort Cloud. There is no agreement among scientists that I know of. Others think it is volcanic activity on a huge scale, but why should volcanic activity be so regular? Maybe a burst of solar radiation or some sort of gamma bombardment that periodically eminates from the theoretical super black hole at the center of our galaxy? Would such a gamma burst be readable in the geologic record here?

I'm with you on that! I don't fear water, but my only two near-death experiences were on rivers. Once on a rafting trip down the Black Canyon-Methow River, and once on a canoe trip down The Cedar. BTW, Squid! I'm serious about that bike trip if you're interested. I think the pics would be funnier than shit, and we'd likely break some bones. And we'd possibly be violating a wilderness reg, or at least a code of ethics... if you are ok with that let's talk.

I'm thinking about carrying my mountain bike up the south spur of Mount Adams this summer. Who's in?

It's still available on DVD or VHS.

One is in college and has a commie roommate! So far, she hasn't gone postal. But thanks for the parenting tip! How old are your kids? I'm not opposed to choice or birth control, but I think that the foster care system could use some improvement as evidenced by your foul existence. BTW, that's spelled h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y. Make a note of it before you file your next obnoxious brief. How is it relevant? Does one's service record, or lack of, exclude them from the arena of ideas? And why are you so anxious to defend RBW? Are you and he intimate? Actually, I'm dissapointed. I thought you could have been much more vicious. Step up! You're an attorney, for God's sake!

Now THIS was a photo-op....

Actually, AK, the sight of a communist guerilla's execution is a happy image IMO. ...And there you go again, crybabyin' about your first ammendment rights when, in fact, no one on the right has ever suggested press freedoms be curtailed insomuch as their reporting doesn't compromise troop safety ala Jeraldo Rivera. Quite the opposite, in fact. The only ones that [/i] I[/i] ever hear calling for media restrictions are lefties like you who hate talk radio and FOX News. Just remember: If a media outlet expresses its free speech rights via biased reporting and images, it can't claim those same rights are being violated just because viewers decide to change the channel or because watchdog groups cry foul. It's freedom...and it works both ways. And if you really want to talk about press freedom, or lack thereof, we need only look to your socialist paradise up north ... http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/448934/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD

Yes. I was very young when I saw it. The blood squirting from the condemned man's head as he fell was shocking. The press at the time played it up as an atrocity, for they were just as one-sided then as they are now. The following might shed a little light on the event, but I'm sure that j_b will remain as inconsistent regarding this press-fairness matter as ever: http://www.treefort.org/~cbdoten/rvntanks/080-4450.htm

Hey, j_b! This is one of my favorites:

My wife and I were hiking the olympic coast with two other couples a few years back. One night we all sat atop the grassy-topped seastack near Sand Point and watched the stars. As my wife and I attempted to identify constellations it became apparent that my friend's date/companion - holder of a B.A. in "women's studies" - had no fucking idea what stars were! In as non-condesending a manner as possible I proceeded to explain to her that most of what she was looking at on this night were distant suns, much like our own. I couldn't tell if she was skeptial, bewildered, or just plain unimpressed. She must have possessed some other, non-mental "abilities" that my friend found worthwhile.

Very true.

I'll agree, Matt. But I believe that balance, for the most part, is currently at hand here in the PNW. Mr Vandeman, on the other hand, is likely less willing to rest until his exclusionary goals regarding recreation/use are achieved. I doubt that the word 'compromise' is part of his lexicon.

Dear Gentlepersons: This Vandeman crackpot makes the rest of you look like the Great Rightwing Horde. (What does that make me? ) And to think...PhD's were once so revered.

You're still not pure enough for the likes of Dr Flash and j_b. I suspect they'll have a cattle car waiting for you and your family immediately after the revolution.

Fuck the military, fuck violence, and fuck your bullshit ideals. Fuck also the flag, and lastly, fuck you. Eat a bag of dicks, you wannabe John Wayne, bourgeois, pseudopatriotic pig. Brilliant. Well stated. Rise up, Dr Flash! Show us the way o' wannabe revolutionary. Surely your words will change the world.

classic strawman argument. nobody argued for increasing poverty in developing nations. say what? depletion of resources and destruction of ecosystems is not "a related problem" but the main topic of discussion in this thread, and despite what your tendencious discourse implies it is principally the doing of developed nations. playing the wittle-fiddle-of-eradicating-poverty-in-developping-nations to justify the continuing policy of resource extraction beyond sustainability is nothing more than demagoguery. what? you are now aguing that conservation will make the difference? this is what you wrote earlier: " The other morsel of irony in the Left fringe's critique of the Right Fringe's ecological track record is that when you look at actual BTU's per household, there's not much difference. You have electric lights, modern appliances, an automobile - etc - just like they do. Hardly enough of a difference to warrant the self righteous grandstanding and condemnation issuing forth from the Left fringe" so which is it going to be: is conservation key or not? you can't have it both ways. your interpretation of "human nature", the supposed desire of some to change it and the means available to address the problems belong to the realm of cartoons. and the demonization goes on ... weak. let's face it, under the pretense of an educated argument you debate like a rightwing thug. j_b, I think it is sad that you respond to JayB's well reasoned and thoughtful points with mockery, condescension, and an accusation of right-wing thuggery. It should be apparent to anyone here who possesses even a modicum of civility that you will never conduct a reasoned debate or cede even the smallest point. And since it is I who is the true right-wing thug, I'll spell it out for your smug little pea-brain: I enjoy my lifestyle. I consider it modest by western standards, but I certainly consume more than my fellow man in, say, Bhutan. I don't, however, buy for one second that he'd be better off without me and my fellow modern consumer around. If someone who shares beliefs like yours ever assumes power and subsequently tries to wholly take away the economic and political freedom I now enjoy, I, and probably the majority of the citizens of this country will respond with violence. Our country possesses the greatest military in the history of the planet, and it's primary purpose is to preserve my way of life. An officer corps that believes in the dream will likely protect my ideals from yours well into the future. So you see, j_b, I'm not at all worried about your smug arguments here. Without the people and the power to back up your dream, you are doing nothing more than wasting keystrokes. Carry on.

Remind me to avoid the concept of compromise here on this board. First time I've ever been called a commie.

such a gift for nuance ... "you are either with us, or against us", right? i have no frickin idea. why do we spend more than 500 billions on "defense" per year? btw, your numbers are grossly inflated. considering that: colombia has 4times the firepower of venez. (thank you taxpayers), "border incidents" are 'per chance' more and more common, there is an ever larger number of "military advisers" and "private contractors" in Colombia, we hear a crescendo of anti-chavez rhetoric in the US media such as continual allegations without an iota of evidence of venez. involvement in colombian politics, etc ... nothing that we haven't seen and heard over and over before. i look forward to your mentioning venez. WMDs to justify your warmongering. give it a rest, will ya? fine, i don't make a habit of confusing the employment of death squads with central/latin american foreign policy. Better dead than [/i]red[/i]. ...Said it then; I say it now too. No apologies. I sleep well, thankyou.