Don_Serl

cdn border peak is an easy day from end of tamihi cr road. turn right at far side of chilliwack river bridge, head uphill in 200m, then follow your nose. i reckon the S face and SE face routes are nicer than the std NW face route, which has a frightening amt of looseness in the lower gully. it took us longer to descend the NW route that to climb the others. see CAJ 2002 p110. cheers, don

moral dilemma: i WORK for MEC - but i'm a climber, and i've been asked a question about a piece of gear. i've got some unflattering experience. what do i do? that's easy... a few years ago i participated in an ice-tool demo on the base of 'stairway to heaven' before the outdoor retailer show in salt lake. there were dozens of tools and crampons available to take for a cruise. an hour or so of swinging the vertige convinced me this was the worst ice tool i had ever handled. it felt very 'mechanical' when you placed it, it required a 'tugging' swing to set properly, and it invariably stuck and had to be fought loose. conversations with a few of the other participants confirmed my opinion. one of my buddies owns a pair (fortunately, recently retired), so i hope he doesn't read this thread, but do yourself a favour and take a pass. let somebody else buy 'em. how does it go? the sting of poor quality lingers long after the glow of low price wears off...

michael, the description in alpine select is accurate. if you got to pitch 4, the rock must have improved: pitches 1-3 are decomposed, above that, it's perfect. we climbed the right-hand variation, in the corner, on p7: steep, excellent jamming and stemming. the lefthand crack looked thin and hard (and took 1 point of aid on the FA). use double ropes; that way u can clip your gear in above the blocks on p8, and even if something cuts loose, you won't get killed. they're actually pretty well rooted. overall, the route is long and strenuous: about a dozen of the pitches are 5.8, 5.9, or 5.10. only 3 or 4 are easier. a big day. and the descent is shitty. the photo on p339 shows the line correctly. u can downclimb some, but we were headlamping it by that time, and the weather was on the verge of rain - fully fearsome, cuz u wouldn't want to be in the gully if it was pouring; it'd be a shooting gallery. there is a small overhanging step at the bottom to shelter under, but we hung our rope on the pull, and had to cut it maybe 50 feet short. toe-to-toe, about 6 a.m. to 2 a.m. good luck, cheers, don

dR, i don't want it to seem like i'm slamming u for the suggestion that winter is a good time to climb the lions. there IS good climbing to be had, early december onwards. mostly that's on the south and west sides tho; hasn't seemed to be interest in doing more exciting things since the '70s ended. and there are HARD things to be climbed on the east face. plus getting there is no picnic.

fence sitter, go do it, it's nowhere near as bushy as the northeast buttress - which has to be an all-time classic for west coast mixed: you know, rock and cedar! some tips: low down, you might find you'll end up climbing the right-slanting gully leading into the gut behind the NW shoulder. this is crumbly and unprotectable, but not too hard, and u don't have to get too far up it (60m-80m). i once tried gaining the 1st ledge directly by climbing at about the shadow-sun line on fairley p24, and couldn't do it; looks more attractive than the gully, but very compact rock, wet here and there, no pegs, no balls... then traverse WAAAAY left (you can actually easily walk all the way to the NE butt). center section: when in doubt, go right. well marked on fairley p24. cross a little rib to get into the hollow (probably no snowpatch this time of year) in the center of the face. exit this on the extreme right - i've tried getting out the top, and had to back down. a GOOD (unnamed) local pitched quite a long ways from a pitch or so directly above the hollow way back when. upper section: 2 -3 pitches, again keep drifting right, don't fight the terrain. nice corners, blocks, and ribs, blended with heather and a bit of bush - but i recall not much of it, and not interfering with the progress. continue thus all the way to the upper W ridge. then it's easy bush to the top. p.s. as for doing it in winter, talk is cheap. there haven't exactly been line-ups...

jesse, i recall heading up the slope at least 100m right of the right edge of the fall-line from the glacier ice-cliffs. we followed a gully rather than scrambling the face, which was bushy. i seem to recall taking LEFT forks in the gully, and there were certainly short sections (up to 10m) of at least mid-5th, rather exposed - just boulder it out. eventually you emerge into heathery terrain (maybe 200m elevation gain?), and u can traverse hard left to reach the ice. good luck.

btw, it's clarke with an "e"...

anybody who climbs crescendo, lemme know. i did the approach and traverse ledge with erik frebold a few years ago, then set off up the crest; came up against wide cracks thru loose, mossy overhangs within half a pitch; backed down; climbed to a higher break and again went out right to the crest - more looseness. chickened out and had a fun time doing about 6 or 7 pitches up and left, then left and up, to the east ridge crest. nice rock over that way. see righthand dotted line in alpine select p309. beats me 'bout the "real" route... cheers, don

dru: choss? CHOSS? and how would anyone know? my recollection: 1st pitch steep, solid, 1/2 ropelength. then a rubbley ramp, but this is pretty much a walk up and left. then straight up thru center of face: highly flakey terrain, mostly right facing corners, dihedral, flakes, etc. u gotta be careful, for sure - this is not diedre or snake, but it's not like flirting with death, it's using light hands and feet. it's mountaineering. the NW route on canadian border peak is WAY scarier, and tons of not-very-experienced people climb that. (of course, a few of them get hurt...) that's maybe 3 pitches, then 2 pitches of the superb stuff in the photo. then a traverse left to the finishing dihedral, more fine rock, in fact tight to find pro. i don't remember the final corner being consistently hard, or loose, but it had one short vertical, icy, handcrack that gave the crux. and u CAN see waddington from the top...

re: chehalis routes, when u say new SW BC guide, i presume u mean "alpine select". the beta is good for all these routes in that guide. i have not climbed direktissima, but it sounds very good. the crux pitch is challenging and (shall we say) NOT sport-protected, but none of the chehalis cruxes are. i always advise people to carry a piton hammer and 3 or 4 thin pegs (KBs, thin LAs) for the tight corners on the harder chehalis climbs. i agree with your comments on flavelle-howe. a lot of moderate climbing low down, a bit turfy. that's why carl and i went the way we went on variazioni, to get better climbing and cleaner rock. btw, we varied to right at the finish cuz we couldn't figure out (or weren't ballsey enuf to climb) the headwall crux on the F-H. those guys were impressive. and our crux was pushy too... every chehalis route has its crux... i'll respectfully disagree with the comments on N ridge of clarke. there ARE only 5-6 'technical' pitches on the toe and a cpl more at 1/3 height, but the easier stuff is superb, lots of it is 'bottom-end' 5th class butr scramble-able, and it's 25 pitches long (not that u rope it all). great rock, great feature. as for tuning fork, i think it's the best of the lot. once u get above the bush on the lower ridge, there are maybe 15 pitches, almost all 5.7, 5.8, or 5.9. u need to pay attention to routefinding too, esp to get right into the dihedral (about p4) and to outflank the roof at its top (about p7). and ashlu: it worked well for dave and i, day return from the road. there's a lot of flake terrain in the 1st half, and u need to be careful here and there with suspect rock, but the upper pitches are excellent, solid, steep, 5.8/9 (photo: alpine select p152). somebody has gotta go up and repeat before i'll know whether it's worthwhile or not. ashlu has ONE bonus: i suspect it's the closest peak to vancouver from which u can see waddington... cheers, don

i climbed saxifrage (NE of pemberton) on sunday the 7th. looking south to the N garibaldi park peaks, one cld see clearly that there was a LOT of snow on the N face of JT. see pg 208 of alpine select; the couloir appeared to be at least as wide as at the schrund or right of the seracs, for its full height. that may mean there is some snow on the rock on the summit tower, but u probably don't get both "full" snow and dry rock. snow on saxifrage was really well settled, not freezing overnite, about 4" of penetration on glaciers/lower angle slopes, about 6"-8" on 45d-50d SE face below summit. good stability. witnessed only one rock falling on N face. still 50% cornicing, with evidence of some recent collapses. probably as good as you're ever going to get, is my guess. cheers, don

19 years ago is a while back, and my memory might be hazy, so i pulled out my photos. sure enough, lots of flakes, some loose "chunks" in the edges of the flake systems, but almost no evidence of loose rock lying on ledges. plenty of square-cut holds, mostly big sweeps of very sound looking rock. a long way between runners, which tells me it's mostly not harder than 5.8. go climb the route and post the real story - i dunno, maybe it IS choss... better yet, force a direct exit right, around or thru the overhangs where we allowed ourselves to get pushed left to the exit chimney. i think i can see possibilities in a couple of the photos. that'd be a step forward. it IS a new century... cheers, don

back in november, there was a thread about "peak xxx" in the coast mountains. the peak is mt tatlow. i suggested that: the mtn has sacred significance to the local indian population, and politeness indicates u shld give the band office a call before you head off to climb it: chief roger william 250-394-7023 rogerwilliam65@yahoo.com this is incorrect. the mtn has sacred significance such that the local indian band consider it more than impolite to POINT AT the mountain, and they ask that NO CLIMBING take place on tatlow and its immediate neighbours. this policy was adopted by BC parks when this area became a provincial park; the parks management plan (for ts'ylos) expressly states no climbing on tatlow. i had a long series on conversations over the winter with parks personnel, and with chief roger william, and (odd as it may seem to us) no one is being flexible. fact is, there is no enforcement, and i know of recent ascents, but u want to consider the context before you set off. and you probably don't want to advertise your intentions... apologies for for the initially misleading info. it IS a beautiful peak... http://www.mtnphil.com/CoastRange2/CoastRange2.html cheers, don

oh yah, forgot to mention: the central couloir on joffre NE face was 1st climbed in june, so spring is OK, altho u take your chances with the cornices. autumn is more fun - 10p of fine alpine ice, altho it's drying out to rubble in a cpl places some summers nowadays. u'll be fine from bivy to summit to car in a day in summer; gotta climb fast to do that in autumn without getting caught by dark. wld help to have done the descent before too...

rayborbon: i presume you've got alpine select, and are looking at route 67, page 232. i think kevin's pretty accurate on timing; you cld likely do it in a VERY long day - or, if you wanted to enjoy yourself, with one bivy. go as light as u can to have the best time - there's nothing much technical (altho you'll do half-length raps a cpl times on the N ridge of joffre). i'd suggest starting with the couloir on tszil (photo pg 231, not numbered), then do the west ridge on rex's (3rd/4th, 1 or 2 roped easy pitches, very exposed and scenic). the stonecrop face is more direct, but verges on boring - altho it's perhaps the best bum-shuss i've ever done in proper conditons for descent. then carry on as kevin describes. probably cld bivy on rock in the hartzell/matier col - way warmer than on snow. do the NW face on matier (#63) so u don't have to carry rock gear for the W buttress. climb the australian couloir on joffre (photo pg 223, not numbered). descend the NW ridge to the mid-ridge notch, then bail W down the gully to the matier glacier; stay high over the shoulder to avoid the icefall on the glacier (photo pg 64). this'd be good from may onwards; i've been up the W ridge on rex's via tszil in june; easy day return from the road. take half a dozen nuts and slings; you don't even need crampons if u do it early when everything is snowy. and blow off the helmet - you're on ridges and snow-faces... carry food instead. it's possible to climb it in reverse, and i REALlY like the complete N ridge of joffre (summer or winter), but there is more, better climbing counterclockwise. enjoy, don

whew! dru! a mistake... for shame, buddy! fact is, sir sandford is the highest peak in the selkirks, and will definitely be covered in the new northern selkirks guide (maybe out by christmas?) i don't know a thing about the approach, but i'll e-mail dave jones to see if he'll post a reply. cheers, don

dru's right: in the winter, center ck is way faster than any other imaginable approach to lindemann. but don't expect a quick trip... i've been up that road 3 or 4 times in winter, and tried lindemann seriously once. the main valley takes only maybe 3 hrs, but the travel in the snowy forest beyond the end of the road is slow and strenuous; we were a full day from the chilliwack river in gaining the lindemann/macdonald col, where we camped. progress was slow enuf we abandoned lindemann and turned back to do the fwa of macdonald. a snowmobile wld speed travel on the road, but you'll still have to travel fast and get good conditions to do lindemann in winter in a 2-day weekend. but then, that's true of ANY winter climb - almost anything beyond a valley-side scramble will take 3 or more days. as for nesakwatch, point 1 is that winter travel is always faster at low elevations than higher, and this approach has a LOT of high elevation travel involved. point 2 is that the head of the valley, south of the border, is extremely bushy and difficult - there's a thing or two on my list two down there, but after one experience with the approach, i shuffled them back down the list a bit... good luck whichever way u go!

patience please: this is a long post... alpine grades, eh? interesting this came up: together with kevin mclane for SW BC alpine select and dave jones for the selkirks, i am at work on a guide, the waddington guide (out before this summer, honest!). all of these guides cover primarily glaciated alpine terrain, similar to much of the cascades and especially the western alps, but very dis-similar to most american mtns - the sierras and even the tetons are pretty "dry" places. when we started to apply grades, we came to the conclusion that the north american system of NCCS overall grade (I to IV) plus the YDS technical grade (5.9 A2, etc) was not adequate for mtn situations. the system works well for rock climbs, even alpine rockclimbs, but the NCCS grade has degenerated pretty much into strictly an indication of time (IV=very long day, etc). the stuff that really counts in the mtns is much harder to capture in a grade: remoteness, looseness, route finding, difficulty of escape and/or retreat, altitude and height gain, the glacier and ice involved, objective hazard, etc. the alpine grades as used in the valais alps and mont blanc range attempt to "sum up" a combination of ALL these factors, plus consideration of technical difficult, to describe the overall "engagement" or "commitment" for the route. this grade (AD, etc) is used in combination with YDS technical grades, just as it is in europe - you don't see AGs without an accompanying UIAA difficulty grade (V+ = roughly 5.8, etc) - in fact, good guides grade each pitch and/or section. angle and length of ice climbing is also included (350m ice to 53 degrees, etc). most euro guides also give average times to be expected for the route, in hours. plus height gain in meters. plus approach ht gain and time. they are super-detailed and superb at passing on "factual" info which a climber can then use to judge whether a route is for him or her, or not. what u get, then, is a view of technical difficulty on rock and ice plus an indication of "how far am i pushing the boat out on this?" that felt exactly right for the selkirks and waddington range, and "fit" OK for most of SW BC, although some of the peaks here are low enough they are essentially alpine rockclimbs. it'll take time for north american climbers to get in tune with this grading system, for it to start to make sense. like any grading system, it is comparative, not absolute, so there will always be disagreements about this grade or that grade, but in the end concensus prevails, just as with rock or ice technical grades today - just more fuel for the bar-room debates! i hope you "consumers" of guidebooks find the alpine grades useful - that's the intention, to build a system that "works" better for mountaineers than the current system. the euros have been doing this a lot longer than we have, and while north americans have a sensible "language" for communicating with each other about technical difficulty on rock and/or ice, we don't think we've yet found the right "lexicon" for doing the same for the mtns. hopefully, the alpine grades are that "language". cheers, don

dru: holy moses! 5,000 feet of R&R anyone?

time on any peak in the winter is completely dependant on conditions; it's not very useful to quote a specific number of hours. 14 hours on welch might be reasonable in average conditons; i took 6 1/2 hours in ascent on the 1st winter ascent of the south ridge in '78, but conditions were perfect: had the crampons on almost right from foley lake (no road above the main valley back then). the firm conditions lasted almost to the false summit; only the top 500' or so were softer. it's 6000' from the valley, but 6 1/2 hours is not fast for an altitude gain like that in "good" conditions. for contrast, 2 friends and i (sharing breaking trail) took 4 hours to climb the top 1400' on the n face of tomyhoi last spring - very relaxing for the two not pounding holes in the snow! the point? if you're climbing serious stuff in the winter, you're not likely to be out there unless conditions are at least decent, but even for moderate-to-easy routes (like welch or tomyhoi) winter times ought to be accepted with at least a factor of 2X for variability. and the north shore/howe sound mtns are almost always good choices when the bigger peaks are still too heavily snowed up... see: http://www.bivouac.com/BlnPg.asp?rq=Pg&BlnId=124 i doubt you'll be climbing welch till after the next thaw (much less the judge, eh dru...) cheers, don

...and, approaching from the north via jones lake (very impressive cirque) you might want to consider the NW ridge; gain it from the W (foley glacier side) - better than it sounds in the guide (p150). the E face above lucky four glacier (photo p151) also wld be good in late spring. enjoy, cheers, don

ahhh, the waddington guide. was there a rumor floating around that i was going to write a guide and give away all the secrets? how foolish! but seriously, is HAS been a long time... route info totally finished, intro sections finished, route lines on the photos but still need a little tweaking here and there; my side (author) is virtually done; kevin's side (publisher) still has quite a bit of work. we're still thinking off to the printers end-march, finger's crossed... and btw, it's the waddington range only: klinaklini [W] to homathko/mosley [E]; scar ck to twist ck [N] cheers, don

pandome might have been in earlier, but there's nothing left now. there are a cpl very short, steep pillar off to the right, but the main flow has not survived the warm weather of the recent week. snow's nice up there, tho... cheers, don

talked to lyle last nite: he tells me he reckons it hasn't gone below freezing in lillooet even overnight for 3 weeks. that's in town of course, and marble, the duffey, and the bridge will be cooler; but if you're going up this weekend, expect WET! and be careful with falling ice and rocks...looks like it might start to cool out on sunday;see: http://weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/scripts/citygen.pl?client=ECCDN_e&city=WKF enjoy, cheers, don

Lillooet Ice Festival dates moved to Jan 25-27, 2002. few details yet, but seems like there will be no clinics. there will be a social Sat Jan 26. more details as available will be posted here, on the CASBC 2002 ice conditions site: http://casbc.bivouac.com/ice0102.htm and on the festival site once it's up. info also eventually available from Paul Malkinson, <teamlillooet@lillonet.org> cheers, don