Peter_Puget

Just as long as you'll always give me Smith beta!

I feel like this soap opera never changes. J-B Quote: "I hope everyone is noticing that most of the grandiose diatribes above are not supported by any links to reputable articles. As they say, the ideologues come out of the woodwork and the innocents pay the price." I have repeatedly stated how many of J-B's links in the past haven't been all that "reputable" but have come to understand that his claim here is honest: his politics do not rely upon logic but rather the "democracy of the committed" where the loudest and most pompous (read in this case left wing protestors) have somehow established a greater claim to be heard and obeyed; a greater correctness. Sadly these "Loudittes" and "Pompousites" are mostly a disparate collection of bodies that are merely reactions to the existence of a status quo. I think that in the past J-B has referred to Edward Said. Perhaps not. Nevertheless he is often referred to in the debate over Middle East issues and while his ideas on exploitation remain utter crap they are in fact held in high regard by many lefties. Lets see what he wrote in Al-Ahram , an Egyptian government funded newspaper. [/i]"For the moment, I shall discount George Bush and his coterie of advisers, spiritual mentors, and political managers like Pat Robertson, Franklin Graham, and Karl Rove: they seem to me slaves of power perfectly embodied in the repetitive monotone of their collective spokesman Ari Fliescher (who I believe is also an Israeli citizen). Bush is, he has said, in direct contact with God, or if not God, then at least Providence. Perhaps only Israeli settlers can converse with him". [/i] Whow! What inflammatory racist shit. Beneath contempt. Not even accurate about Ari. Notice the way he constructs his claim? Leaving enough wiggle room so that he can't be hung when it comes out it is BS. I say he knew it wasn't true from the start. As to Peaceniks what can we say? Will they ever learn? Here is the always erudite John O'Sullivan stating the obvious: As to the "irresistible" character of the marchers and their opinions, it is worth recalling that there have been three such mass movements in the last two decades. In the years 1982 and onwards, there were massive "peace" marches in Western Europe and the U.S. to protest against the installation of defensive U.S. missiles in NATO countries when the Soviet Union refused to withdraw its own SS-20s. NATO and the West stood firm; the Soviet Union imploded; and it is now hard to find someone who admits to having been a peace marcher. Nine years later in 1991 there were massive peace marches in Europe to protest against the U.S.-led war to liberate Kuwait. The young (well, youngish) Gerhard Schroeder, now Germany's Chancellor, led the campaign, warning that the Bush regime might use nuclear weapons against Iraq "with terrible consequences." But the U.S.-led coalition ignored the marchers and liberated Kuwait without any of the horrors predicted. Does even Schroeder now defend his "peace" activities then? Almost certainly he would prefer a kindly veil to be drawn over them. So today's peace marches really are "déjà vu all over again." All that remains of the first two campaigns is a fading outline of revolutionary posturing and a nasty smell of idealism gone sour. The irresistible advance of the peace marchers was resisted. And history sees them merely as the dupes of tyrants Muffy is right concerning the slimey Frenchmen and oil but here is a wonderful article on the Noble German: Noble Germany. From the first paragraph:two German government ministers let readers know that there is little danger now that that American-hating terrorists could unleash the smallpox virus on the German population."Germans first suppress the info, then say "don't worry they won't waste their precious smallpox on Germany they want the US!" Pathetic. The ideologues come out of the woodwork and the innocents pay the price." Precisely what many have noted as they watched the protests succor Saddam. By supporting him they make war inevitable. The "Anti war protests for war." How ironic. PP

Free at last! Off I am sending suggestions to this guy's wife Ian Wallace. Hopefully he'll come around town this summer.

OK, so one of the many people behind the mighty force that is Poptart wants to know....what do you want for Valentine's Day? I think we already know that bible-o-phile Johnny Density wants a Hummer, and we can likely conjecture Trasky wants a couple of Hooters girls (loans only pleeze), but what do the rest of you want? Expecting a lot of spray, but seriously, what would you really like to get on this holiday of lovers?

"Just put out damnit. " Hey that was my line in my 20s!

Hey ChucK Article on the way. Broke my 'puter and my scanner needs a SCSI card interface so my new 'puter won't work with it. Need to get a new scanner then scan those pics and maps and ol'PP will be in your good graces! Hey I wasn't even whining. I even said thanks! PP

The face climbs to the right are pretty fun to if they are even visible through the moss these days. Speaking of TR soloing does anyone know if there are anchors on the Garden Rock? Or if it is too dirty to climb. By the way ChucK keep on pushing the climbing talk! PP

Quote:"discuss whether it would be possible to traverse all 3 index peaks in a day, and if doing so puts you on the list of strongest climbers in washington." I am sure it's been done many times. And no it doesn't friends who have don't seem like supermen to me. Solid shafted friends

I was expecting more opinions but there must be too much political stuff going on. Thanks!

Let's hear some opinions as to the best venue with 500-1,000 seat for a rock act in the Puget Sound area let's include Portland and Vancouver (BC) as well. Thanks PP

Up by Bellingham are a couple of small yet groovy crags. And out by Rockport is another I think the electronic guide is at Misha.org

What do the letters REI stand for? CJ - Go for it. I always thought that it would be a fun thing to do. I agree REI has certainly changed over the years and not in a direction that I would have chosen. Erik - One of those members of the BOD is from my very limited experience a pretty good guy. I know he has been climbing for years and had contributed much to climbing issues. Not to mention paying the wages of many climbers. Not sure what kinda car he drives but if his wife pulled into a climbing parking lot her car would be way less flashy and spendy than many of the hip young climbers. PP

The catagories: Bouldering: Need to do some! All the new areas and problems have me inspired. Trad: Mastadon Roof in the Icicle. As far as Mary Jane goes, I remember it as being an ok route with a surprising amount of grubby rock esp near the top. Galaxy - Bring along lots of full length runners. Freeway up at Squamish. Sport: Just something steep.

I have been working on an article about Castle Crags. It consists of: A short TR of my first trip. A brief discussion of the area. A simple map and directions to easily found routes. Four of five photos. I want to send it in to CC.com. What formats are preferred? Is there a place for it here? I know its not in the WA Cascades but you do have great views of Shasta while climbing and anyone going south of Redding is only a couple miles from some nice routes or fun hiking. PP Also, I think Offwhite and Allison are willing to review it so hopefully it won't be as boring as my posts.

Jon/Timmy - I have written a short article on Castle Crags. Starts with a short narrative of my first climb. It then describes the rock, the climbing and finally suggests climbs suitable for a quick visit. Two maps and several photos.(Pics need to be scanned) How does one submit such a thing?

I agree with the "keep TRs free of spray notion." Mattp deserves a beer for his actions as moderator. I hate the bloody TR spray on this site yet many times I feel sprays pull esp politcal spray. (Guess I need to work harder!) Besides the goofiness of TR spray it is a real pain to look something up via search and find pages of spray to wade thru. PP New Years Resolution: I will Spray No More Forever!

Seems like Erik was at Index, but he hasn't yet revealed what he's been up to. PP was at Discovery Park this weekend so he has nothing to report BUT I am sure alot of you guys were enjoying the sunshine so spill the beans! PP

Oh yea written/researched by Andrew Stuttaford

Just back from a business trip and thought I'd post this very long tidbit. Did you all miss me? Wait don't answer that one! This has been edited from the original but the links are fun. Distinguishing between all the varieties of alien enlightenment can be confusing. To use a possibly unfortunate word, "space" does not permit a detailed survey of what is on offer, so here's a quick guide to some of the players, with a handy comparison of certain key issues to help you choose the group best suited to your needs. The word "cult," with its pejorative connotations, be avoided, so let's just say that all these people have managed, at one time or another, to attract an enthusiastic following. All claims of alien contact have been taken at face value. Before making your choice, here are some questions you might want to ask: Should I go for an established brand? Undoubtedly. We have selected four for your consideration. The grandfather of galactic goodwill was George Adamski. Highly qualified in both bunkum (he founded the "Royal Order of Tibet" in, naturally, California), and burgers (he ran a fast-food stand), Adamski's rendezvous with destiny was in 1952, the year he first met up with the likeable Venusian, Orthon. Subsequent highlights included a trip to Saturn and a number of best-selling books. Less successful than some in his field, Adamski failed to transform his saucer sorties into a more-lasting creed, despite claims of a mysterious meeting with Pope John XXIII. Adamski died in 1965, leaving behind a rich legacy of blurry photographs, wild tales, and entertaining conspiracy theories. His memory lives on at the Adamski Foundation. ( http://www.gafintl-adamski.com/html/GAFpg1.htm ) A year or so after Adamski and Orthon first exchanged small talk (via hand signals and telepathy) Englishman "Sir" George King heard a voice telling him that he was to become the "voice of the Interplanetary Parliament." King was, apparently, "shocked by the implications of this statement" but rapidly came to terms with his new role, which included contact with a "Cosmic Master" known as Aetherius, also based in Venus, but not, strangely, an acquaintance of Orthon. Not long afterwards, "Sir" George founded the Aetherius Society,( http://www.aetherius.org/ ) probably the first UFO-based religion. It's still in existence today after almost half a century, an impressive feat the original Star Trek only lasted three seasons. Nearly two decades later, it was Claude Vorilhon's turn. Following an encounter with a pint-sized alien exuding "harmony and humor," Claude, a French journalist, became the prophet Rael. His disciples, the Raelians, ( http://www.rael.org/ ) are now said to number 55,000 not counting clones. Aliens have even been seen in Switzerland, a sensible country generally better known for its banks than its cranks. Despite this, at least one of its citizens, Eduard "Billy" Meier, has been chatting to extraterrestrials for years. Matters really took off, so to speak, in the mid-1970s when Semjase, a sexy siren from the Pleiades, started allowing Billy to photograph her "beamships." It wasn't long before fame and Shirley MacLaine came knocking at Meier's door. The actress went away "amazed" and she wasn't alone. Meier admirers soon formed themselves into an acronym known as FIGU, ( http://www.figu.org/us ) an ambitious institution dedicated to the "worldwide dissemination of the truth" under the circumstances a possibly self-defeating enterprise. Will my new friends ask me to commit suicide? Probably not, but the Heaven's Gate ( http://www.heavensgatetoo.com/ ) fiasco offers some useful hints for those wishing to avoid such unwelcome requests. References to human bodies as temporary "vehicles" are a bad sign. An unhealthy interest in plastic bags, sleeping pills, and vodka is even worse. Do not accept any offers of Kool-Aid. Morks or dorks? How cool are their aliens? The aliens featured in this survey all predate the Model E. T. standardized in the popular imagination by Close Encounters of the Third Kind. As a result they look more like inhabitants of this planet than Spielberg has taught us to expect. Billy Meier's Semjase, tall, slender, blonde, and blue-eyed, a space chick with more than a hint of Stockholm about her, is undoubtedly the coolest in this cosmic collection, but that's not saying much. Look at the competition. Orthon (one-piece brown leisure suit, red shoes) had no style and Rael's alien (four-feet tall) had no stature. It's difficult to draw any conclusions about the elusive "Cosmic Masters" favored by the Aetherius Society. They appear to believe that they should be heard, but not seen, and clearly prefer to communicate through human intermediaries. ( http://www.aetherius.org/NewFiles/Hear_the_Masters.html ) Did the group's founder change or otherwise enhance his name? This seems to be essential. Claude turned into "Rael," and Eduard became "Billy," a homespun, if not particularly Swiss choice, somewhat eclipsed by the names of Billy's kids Gilgamesha, Atlantis-Sokrates, and Methusalem. Adamski was a "professor" and "Sir" George King discovered that a knighthood was not enough. He ended his career as both a "prince" and an "archbishop." Should I worry if the group's founder looks a little weird? No. Would-be recruits for these groups have much more-important things to worry about. Still, it's an understandable question when confronted with pictures of Billy Meier's beard (a Jehovah/ZZ Top mix) and Rael's topknot, which functions, reportedly, as an excellent antenna for extraterrestrial communication. They may be nuts, but are they liberal nuts? An important question and the answer, regrettably, is yes. Our alien friends often come across as Left-wing Democrats, particularly in their loopy environmentalism (insert Al Gore joke of choice here), welfare largesse, pacifist leanings, and hopelessly utopian worldview. Is it only coincidence that Jimmy Carter once claimed to have seen a flying saucer? The current tensions in the Middle East are, naturally, a focus of concern. Rael, who has had an interest in the region for many years (there were long-standing plans to build an embassy for incoming aliens near Jerusalem) ( http://www.rael.org/int/english/embassy/progress/body_progress.html ) is opposed to an invasion of Iraq, and, if recent commentary published by Billy Meier's FIGU is any guide, so is Semjase. The "war-waging howling American, G. W. Bush" clearly has a major P.R. problem in the Pleiades, but Dubya's support elsewhere in our solar system remains unclear. Orthon hasn't been heard from for years, but a patchy Cold War record suggests that Adamski's spaceman would not be chummy with Rummy. That's no surprise. Orthon came from Venus, not Mars. What will be expected of me? This can vary, but it may be more than just cash. For example, members of the Aetherius Society are often busy charging "Spiritual Energy Batteries" (don't ask) and climbing the mountains first charged with spiritual power back in the heady days of Operation Starlight. Raelians seem to prefer mounting to mountains. Their "sensual education" ("sensual education allows us to learn to take pleasure with our organs") may be as strenuous as an Aetherian hike, but it sounds like more fun. (For more on this topic, see Any chance of a date?, below). Will I be cloned? It's only the Raelians who are concerned with cloning. All life on earth is, apparently, the product of genetic engineering by an alien race known as the Elohim. The Raelians want to repeat the trick, but their cloning technology is optimistic, not mandatory. I'm interested in one of these groups, but has it ever suffered any embarrassments? You're considering signing up with one of these groups and you are concerned about embarrassment? That's like being worried about the beard and the topknot. The answer to this question ought, of course, to be yes. These beliefs are the superstitions of a technological age. They are often attached to highly specific "scientific" claims, which have a nasty habit of being subsequently refuted. The Raelians might be about to run into this difficulty very shortly. However, such moments tend to turn out to be less of an embarrassment than might be thought. To take one analogy, many religious sects have a long tradition of forecasting the end of the world on a specific date only to see that day pass by without apocalyptic incident. They then continue on as if nothing had happened, which indeed it hadn't. In similar vein George Adamski was unperturbed when shown the first photographs (taken by the Soviet lunar orbiter Luna 3) of a bleak and lifeless dark side of the moon (a place where this most curious George had earlier claimed to have seen trees, cities and snow-capped mountains). Adamski simply denounced the pictures as fakes, a subject on which he was something of an authority, and stuck to his stories of those handsome folk from Saturn, Venus and Mars. In this field, ordinary notions of embarrassment do not seem to exist. Despite this, the Aetherius Society has been more cautious: People on Venus, Mars and the other planets in this solar system are living on higher vibratory planes and even if we go there we will not see anybody unless they decide to make themselves visible to us." Disprove that. Any chance of a date? That's hard to say. When it comes to sex, no sects are the same. Nineteenth Century Christianity included the Shakers (celibate) and the Oneida Community (not at all celibate). The same is certainly true in the UFO sphere. The best bet for space-age swingers? Probably the Raelians. They seem to be up for pretty much anything. This has led, naturally, to stern criticism but it may explain why the Raelians were always more successful in attracting recruits than the determinedly asexual (some devotees even chose to be castrated) Heaven's Gate. Conclusion Are you now bewildered, lost, and completely confused? Has your mind now been filled with useless "knowledge"? Excellent. You are now ready to make your choice. The truth is out there.

It's gone!

OK I know it is silly but I was cleaning up and was about to throw out a topo map of Everest that came with an issue of National Geograpic soemtime ago. It is actually a pretty neat map. 2'x3' If anyone wants it, pm me yopur address and I will mail it to you. If not. out it goes! PP

Not sure your point here but I thought I'd take this opportunity esp since MG did not bring it up. see below: Quoting SC: "By the People, For the People." A representative government, with individuals voted into office who enact policy changes that the individual citizens want. PP's Comments: School house rock isn't the best place to learn about your goverment. Leaving the various types [local,state,federal]of government aside what you said is clearly untrue. I would suggest a quick review of the Federalist Papers esp #10. I am going on memory here so 10 maay be wrong but you'll learn something anyway. Also a quck review of the Const. might be useful! PP

The subject line while funny is another example of J_B being in error! See the Prana thread in spray. I just wish I had taken Dwayner's advice in sport climbing fashion to heed a year ago! Quote: "PP who spent several threads demonizing arabs and under duress may have acknowledged small defects with israeli "democracy". (actually I don't think you acknowledged anything despite mass evidence)" PP's reply: I invite interested parties to review the threads and how J_B repeatedly lies and distorts facts. I enjoy a good debate but sadly tired of J_B refusing to address anything and out and out lie. Further quote: "and what is my position?" PP's reply: Since you believe that the VA study closes the case on the debate I assume your position is simply one that you are in agreement with its conclusions. Some of which you note in your above post. Seems simple to me. Quote: "I read the NYT every day and I rarely find a progressive slant to their stories, on the contrary, on bottom line issues such as the economy and foreign policy the differences with the rest of the conservative press are minimal especially if one accounts for the entire political spectrum. So to be frank, I don't take your examples too seriously." PP's reply: Ah minimal! You see; you do agree there is a difference. Such minimal differences are in fact called "bias". What you would wish to argue is what to call that bias. You got the direction correct though. Bravo! I would suggest that since you are so far to the left, that what appears centrist to you just might be somewhere to the left of McGovern. My question remains: why not provide an analysis of how my examples are not convincing? Help me and perhaps some lurker lost in the wilderness find our way to redemption. Quote: "Anyhow I was not specifically discussing your examples but your unability to present a comprehensive analysis of the NYT or the press in general and yet you still claim the existence of a liberal bias." PP's reply: J-B you are doing it again! You reply appeared to be a resonse (and agreement) with my claim that I couldn't provide an analysis of the whole of US media. Here is a quote from my post that you used to introduce your reply: Can MG or PP provide a detail documented analysis all the US media? Certainly not. Now I have presented several diverse examples of what I considered bias in the NYT. Examples which you do not find convincing. Fine. But since my entire "argument"was based on examples, if you were truly discussing my "unability to present a comprehensive analysis of the NYT"b] how were you doing so? Even if I agreed completely with the VA study and thought its conclusions were the gospel truth, I do not see how the study (from 1998) would apply to my current analysis of the NYT. Perhaps the professors at VA have a time machine or perhaps this is yet another example of your belief that asserting something makes it true. Anyway your claim to be addressing my inability to form (to your mind anyway) a convincing NYT argument seems to be utter nonesense on its face. PP

PMS - I am sure EDMR is as good as you say. Before Eric's comments I was caught up in the classic mode and to me a route that has only one (known) ascent and comes into condition very infrequently doesn't qualify as a classic. I went back a looked at my dog eared copy of the select guide and agree with those that would encourage you to keep it in. I am glad to see that you seem to agree that the NW hasn't had as many cold spells as it did just a few years ago. I know if we had just a few years of really cold winters you'll have to come out with a new book full of winter routes and a second volume will have to be added to the Washington Ice book. PP