Peter_Puget

I am not trading insults. I am presenting my own opinions in a cogent and logical fashion. This didn't start out as an ethical discussion. Part of my problem with this whole gym/ sport thing is that some of us don't particularly like our version of climbing being thrown in with the Trad. It ain't all the same. We do what we do because we like it and in fact wethink it's better. (Gym climbing I believe, is morally superior to all other forms of climbing because it does not dergade the environment. Sport climbing is much less encumbered by equipment and technology than trad climbing thus it is a purer form of climbing. Bouldering of course rules the universe) In the words of a classic bumper-sticker: "Sore - Loserman" So go self-deprecate yourself (or on your own sleeping bag) if you like. You wanna talk ethics....start another discussion.

I stay out of the boulder pits. I am not to proud to admit the gravel in there scares me! PP

RuMR - Pope is constantly proclaiming his talents and achievements. One indication that one is on its way is a comment such as " I'm not much into boasting." The fun thing is he is at the ready to spray about his achievements. Ring a bell and he'll start salivating. Check out some old threads. You'll see that at even the slightest provocation he'll boast. PP

Dwayner, I took your awful advice about the Mickeys and now I am so built up that I am reduced to cruising gyms for youthful ropeguns like some aging pederast! Please just say no to Mickeys! PP

Dwayner - Teach us about the moral/ethical/spiritual considerations/repercussions of using your tremendous intellect to consistently ridicule and demean others residing on a lower intellectual/spiritual/moral level? Build us up don't tear us down! PP

Not sure but I'd like to meet a Sweet Tart.

You're lucky politeness is the mark of a classy ropegun! LOL I sound like Pat Ament! PP

Erik - I not only took the cake I ATE IT! PP

RuMR that's to joke! Nothing makes me as bitter and angry as some crankin' teenager in the gym! What needs to be developed is an accurate handicapping system. Some things to consider: age, job, fat content, years experience and while we are at it throw in skill & enthusiasm as well. I am sure a well designed system will make me king of the gym! PP

Whoa DFA! What's all this talk about Mochas! Yech! A double shot and a three tablespoons of sugar! MMMMMM Besides lugging all that water and milk around might lead to leg muscle development! Also, isn't the Bird a well known chipper and rap bolter! Clearly the antecedent to Alan Watts! And as an early advocate of flashy dressing I like to consider him the god father of lycra. Heck, even J Bachar has felt the pleasurable rhythms holding a Bosch in motion.

Great topic! Gym-climbing gear issues: One must deal with the complexities of clipping draws for 20 feet before lowering off a bomber anchor. Sport-climbing gear issues: One must clip bolts for the length of a pitch and often one must decide whether or not to clip that doggin' bolt or go for it in a scramble to glory! Gym-climbing experience issues: Chance your belayer will be distracted by that cute as hell girl who is for some reason dating some total loser.. Sport-climbing experience issues: Chances are both you and your belayer will be distracted by some cute as hell woman you both have never seen before and who for some strange reason is engaged to that DFA character. Gym-climbing communication issues: See Gym-climbing experience issues Sport-climbing communicaton issues: See Sport-climbing experience issues. Ease of communication enables you to meet and safely climb with a wide variety of partners. Gym-climbing route-finding issues: You will need to complete difficult sequences of moves ("Gastons" and "pianos", for example) across blank expanses of plywood between wildly colored plastic holds in a stuffy gym while torrential rains pour down from the heavens.. Sport-climbing route-finding issues: You will need to complete difficult sequences of moves ("Gastons" and "pianos", for example) across blank expanses of rock in some of the most beautiful places in the world. ( ie Smith Rocks, Verdon Gorge, Mediterranean coastline, Thailand.) Gym-climbing commitment issues: You're probably 5 minutes from the nearest mocha. Sport-climbing commitment issues: The beautifully landscaped terrace and armchairs at the base of the cliff provide the perfect location to break out that stove and portable espresso machine!. PP

I would suggest that you consider purchasing several forged Friends. They are inexpensive, last forever and are quality. Certainly there are times where a flexible stem is preferred over a solid one but honestly I climbed for years with them and rarely found a cable stem essential. You can always add a sub sling to a forged Friend to improve horizontal placements. Check this link out for Wired Bliss units on sale. I am not sure if they have built in cams stops or not. Back in the dark ages I think that I was wishing for solid cams stops more often than I wanted a flexible stem so that would be an important consideration to me. Wired Bliss sale PP

I keeep seeing Scott's Pilchuck picture and can't help but thinking that there must be some fun rock climbs there. Anyone ever checked the area out? PP

Check the link and read DFA.

My lawyers will be in contact!

No because they are full of crap.

RuMR - I thought I held the copyright on the "Hey DFA!" title!

Just pointing out why no one should ever go there!

EMP Link Excerpt: Metaphors of blackness link it to residues: of ash, soot, coal dust, and burnt cork, thence to the collier, smith, and engineer, to mummery and minstrelsy, finally to travesty, inversion, and social chastening, on the one hand, and to conversions of energy, physical, social, political, on the other. In the blues disc, as cultural residue, as human trace, as musical contest or struggle, these metaphors converge. At once token, sign, text, miniature and windup toy, the disc encodes and fetishizes an human action — one thinks of Tiger Woods's golf stroke, recently captured as a computer file by outfitting him with a sensor-embedded electronic drysuit from which the stroke can be digitally read, capable of endless repetition, not "preserved for posterity" but embodied as the end and original of all possible golf strokes, at once consuming and resurrecting the game. Like Nepalese religious shrines tendered on cow dung, the blues disc is an "opportunity for devotion." In the three economies in which it occurs, of the market, of society, and of the self, a disc collection such as James McKune’s or Harry Smith’s becomes a kind of counter-capital, a harvest of illth, like Dickens's dustman converting what is dispersed, discarded, ruined, and despised to what is recovered, concentrated, and renewed, rendering it at once rare and precious, scandalous and subversive. In the vertical archeology of the social body, it is an edifice of the repressed, making one’s own despised or ruined condition available for contemplation and turning it, by virtue of our irrepressible sociality, into a source of cultural power. "Whatever we worship we make sacred." (Patanjali).

Isn't 1956 Suez War missing. Another french failure by the way.

Ok so I have been informed I am a downer. Here is something more upbeat. But first I'd just like to point out that the Economist this week categorized the BBC as an anti-war organization, motivated by simple anti-Americanism. But there is hope for the UK check outthis link: The Sun PP

Sisu Your forgot to mention the noble French and their invasion of Mexico in the 1800s!

Well as we sit around and spray today let's spend a minute to think about Daniel Pearl's life one year ago today. He was a star in a film produced my some Islamic scholars where his head was gleefully removed from his body. He was made star of this film by virtue of his religion. Sit back and in your mind just imagine this low budget production. Now DFA has of course taught us many times a soldier is in fact a murderer. This whether or not he/she is killing an armed soldier on the field of combat or if his/her actions result in accidental death of civilians. I must be something worse than a murderer because when I remember the demonstrations in support of the producers of this film I can't help but imagining a jet swooping low and napalming the whole wretched mess of them. Sort of like the ending of another action film "Apocalypse Now". Anyhow just one man's thoughts on this day during the Oscar season.

A few days ago when I was lamenting that I could not make the "beta" required number of moves between bolts you clued me into the very cool stick clip. As cool as that is I knew it was only one piece to the puzzle. Now I found the other piece! Dig the built in pulley! A stick clip, one of these 'biners and a pullin' ground crew are all I need! PP