Peter_Puget

Jeesh you guys are tougher than the A’s! Ok my last suggestion may have been over the top and Lance’s picture and some of the other posts have caused me to reconsider my stance on bolts at Castle Rock. It seems we all agree that Castle rock is “sacred” ground and that we should honor our “forefathers”. Some of the first crag climbs in the Wa were establish at Castle rock. Gardening while commonplace now was novel and new when logger’s ledge earned its moniker. In the late 70’s and early 80’s Castle was the scene of full on scrubbing adventures. Many of the routes still admired today were inspected and top roped before their FA (eg No Free Lunge) Several non-bolt “sport” routes were established. For example Monkey Lip is a pin ladder and Das Musak was as all pin protected when it was first climbed. Bolts are not foreign to Castle Rock; there are many routes with bolts. Starting in the later 80’s Castle Rock fell out of favor and entered into a “Dark Age.” Moss buried many quality routes. From the looks of things Lance and his people seem to be unearthing these buried treasures. (sacred relics?) Why stop there? Why not continue the Castle Rock traditional of being “untraditional” and start putting up some sport routes on the steep section to the left of Das Muzak? Wouldn’t continuing the tradition and keep Castle a living area be the best way to honor its history as a ground breaking climbing area?

I need to run to the Safe but I offer this solution to the entire bolt controversy... I suggest we never rebolt our "traditional classics." Instead we should leave them as a museum piece celebrating the day in which they were first climbed. Climbers can bolt up as many new routes as they want. As the trad classics age, they will become the new frontier for each new generation of climbers. The difficulty of the old climbs will rise with the abilities of the new generations. For example…Black Widow was bolted to the max. (see sample picture) These days climbers do not need to use the bolts. This is partly due to the fact that there are cams but in the wide section it is primarily because climbers have simply gotten better. The bolted climbs of today are just like Black Widow was in the 60s. My plan allows us to have our cake and eat it too! We can bolt all we like and create the test pieces of tomorrow!

Just what is the Castle community? How is membership defined? What do I need to do to be in the governing circle? Are you saying things like this should not be posted on CC.com?

Well true enough I did use the word encourage. I thought it less incendiary than "prodding" but still to be in the spirit of your intended meaning - trying in some sense to be fair and balanced. Still I am not sure how my participation in this thread is prohibited by being a mod. Castle rock has been the center of much controversy on CC.com. I have not called anyone names, impugned anyone’s motives, questioned a person's experience level or manhood in this thread.

So as a "Mod" I can't endorse any action because I wont be acting under the Mod guideline of "Fair & Balanced?" That doesn't seem to make any sense I haven't used my admittedly awesome “mod” powers at all in this thread. Now assuming that there is an obligation for mods to make threads fair and balanced what do you think can/should be done to make then F&B. By the way you first said I was “prodding” (To goad to action; incite.) SummitChaser and now you’ve changed it to “endorse” (To give approval of or support to) Of course these words have different meanings. I'm still waiting for the "locals" to get off their asses and pry that block out!

Finally a kindred spirit!

Hmm Jefe -- I am not sure I am encouraging anybody to do anything but as both Mattp and I have pointed out the bolt in question appears to be a new one! Also, I have been climbing at Castle for ~30 years. I have been there recently :http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/950646/Where_is_everyone#Post950646 If you want to take me upon a wager I 'll be happy to bet ($10.00) that I have climbed more routes at Castle than telemarker. Of course that fact doesn't mean anything as far as adding value to our comments.

Why didn't you? Sometime you have to draw the line. Besides I'll point it out again. By Malcolm and Sum Chaser didn't see any new bolts recently. I am guess that this is the result of the new guidebook coming out and young gym trained climbers wanting to get their names into the next guide.

On your knees boy what you address the Gods...show some fuckin' respect.

I find myself even more conservative than SCJB. Part of the fun of climbing is experiencing the "traditional" fixed gear. It gives me a sense of history that simply isn't there with modern stainless gear. I use to carry several quickdraws with narrow gates so that I could clip those pull tab aluminum hangers that use to be quite common. I can't remember the last Leeper hanger I clipped. Sadly this whole upgrade process is dumbing down our sport. Let's agree to leave the "classics" classic!

Hey crimper it was resolved - no argument..I am merely speculating as to why it ever came about.

With regard to the Angel anchor...Thank God but why haven't some locals gone and pried out that block so that climbers will be less inclined to leave their trash for the sake of a convenience anchor. Sol check out the quotes above they seem to be refering to a new bolt!

I made a similar observation post several years ago. What is most interesting to me is that a counter group hasn't risen to the challenge. Certainly a group of guys committed to a different ideal armed with their own "Little Dawgs" could rebolt chopped routes with little effort. (Hell they could easily add bolts to existing routes as they rap off just to piss off the Gods of the Gorge!) Why haven't they? What challenges would they face? Well they would face the guys who want to control climbing in the gorge. What would they win? Relative freedom to put up routes as they see fit in the gorge. The prize is fixed in terms of what it has to offer. The difficulty in wining concessions against the current ruling clique is dependent on how hard they want to fight to preserve their hegemony. When the ruling clique faces new climbers in the gorge it is to their advantage to act as goofy as they can. In short they need to increase the costs relative to the prize. The ruling clique has every reason to act like clowns. (I would use a different term) The crazier they act the better. Make the cost uncertain. Let a guy put up routes and then chop them. The disappointment he will feel will simply help to discourage him even more. It will let him know he isn’t worth shit in the Gorge! When others see just how capricious the Gods can be they will be discouraged from making their own explorations. (See the recent bolt chopping thread for an example of this)

Doubtful Tele given these posts. What are the Angel anchors and when did they come into existence? Summit chaser when you fix this new bolt, might the Angel anchor need "chopping" as well? Thanks!

Thanks for your reportage and getting to the bottom of this situation!

Watch out I'm gonna cape your ass... Good thing I am a Giants fan too

So true...

Garage Days Revisited......

Leave it to you to piss all over your own thread. Also, I fixed your spelling for you. Unless you were trying to use your GWB vocabulary to say that the mariners can hear? All you fuckin' goons can't bring me down today!

The M's are undeafed!!!! and then there is this fraud: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/04/06/obama_cant_name_a_white_sox_player.html

"Leavenworth is rockin right now. Not one car at Castle Rock!

I can't help but to think of J_B when I read this..... linky

Shit! Forget healthcare we have some real shit to worry about: Cliff Lee!

I heard that ROTC stood for Route Opposite Twin Cracks or Rather Overhanging Thin Crack. If i had to choose which one was correct I'd go with the former. The route starts off less than vertical and then steepens to the pod/chimney. Up to the pod the route is less than vertical. Getting out of the pods is a steep hand crack that soon gets less steep with every move. Its a great route.

Once you're on top I remember it as being fairly easy to move around. It might be easiest to bring an extra rope for setting up a TR. Last time I was there there were no fixed anchors fr TR'ing. ROTC is just east of the Twin Cracks fissure which should be easy to locate. Since youll be be psyched for top roping you might as well set an anchor on EO and TR In Search of a Perfect Pump to start off the day. It's short and fun and a well protected lead if you want to try it that way.