W

We took the "easiest" line, which Dale thought a solid 5+. I just gave it PDH as I moaned my way up it. The curtain cracked through as he led it, also. BYOB over the border next time.

i dunno- think it varies from climb to climb. I did Shriek w/Dale on Saturday. Go up there and see if you think the last pitch is a "4+". Same thing with Loose Lady. Serl says Shriek will be upgraded in the next edition of the book as he admits it is typically a major sandbag.

They even have something for you RURP. It's called a "Big Valls und Big Boobs" punch card. Every three big walls you complete earns you a two-girl dance, ("Der Double Team" is what they call it) FREE! That's right, FREE! [ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: W ]

No, Pope, it's not fake- I was there and got a great lap dance from a girl named Heidi. Looked kinda like the St.Pauli Girl. If you go, ask for the "Trad Climber's Trad-Couch-Dance Special".

I heard RURP is one of the bouncers, yes?

quote: Originally posted by Dwayner: I was out with the guys at a new German-themed strip club in Leavenworth- Dwayner You must be talking about schlangenschmecker's new joint-Der Deja Booben Graben ze Shnitzel Haus

I have to admit...upon physical inspection, it would appear that they would be the SHIT for pin scars. They might actually be good for specific pin scars, like the boxy ones found on the Shield headwall. But you don't find those in many other places. We were psyched to try them, but man were we disappointed. I don't know how to describe the way these things seat into tapered scars and flares other than spooky and insecure- particularly in flares because the width of the actual cam head is too big- and they wobble and move around- the light weight almost seems to exacerbate this problem. Think a two cam alien is scary? try a two cam placement with only the back half of the cams touching but the central axis (offset from the line of contact with the rock) pulling down and trying to rotate the placement forward. If they tapered the cam heads that might actually revolutionize the product. Til then, rack up the Hybrid Aliens and don't buy into the hype. These things need some tweaking. Or maybe I just need to learn how to make better placements...

Word up, Will. But to that I would add: If you go there, for the sake of your own future experiences, and those of others, be really mindful of your own impacts to the area. Try to stick to established paths in the fragile soils and don't create new ones; place camps accordingly, don't litter, use public bathrooms to the greatest extent possible and generally tread lightly and keep a low profile in regard to these issues. A fully rewarding experience can be had now and in the future if we are all a little more aware of the traces of our passing. The BLM may not be the "bad guy" here, but nonetheless, the watchful eye of the government is upon the area now, and it won't take much for someone to propose fees, restrictions, and regulations. then we all lose.

Sounds like paid ad to me. My buddy got a hold of four of the two-cam Splittergear units last summer through a friend of his who worked for Splittergear, and we took them up the Pacific Ocean Wall in Yosemite to try them out. We thought they would be great.Our consensus? They suck. After scaring ourselves several times, having one of them walk out of a crack ("they don't walk!!!"- bullshit), and having many other placements shift unexpectedly after weighting them (often after making a string of manky placements), or just not seeming to fit and work as they should, they spent the upper half of the wall buried in bottom of the haul bag; they could just as well have been placed in the shit tube. We continued in high style and comfort using hybrid aliens, regular aliens, and large cam hooks like we should have done in the first place. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

1.Most recent climb 2.Whoever my partner is for the day 3.Next climb I try

While I can empathize with the complaints listed here, and don't condone rude on monopolistic behavior at the crags, I also think that getting worked up about the rudeness of the masses of people vying for the same routes in a popular, compact area with little in the way of novice climbs, and decrying the existence and actions of top-ropers, regardless of how valid the complaints may be- is to me kind of akin to going up to climb the DC on Rainier on a July weekend and coming home complaining about crowds, slow climbers, people knocking rocks down, being kept awake at Muir by noisy people, and that damn RMI group. Dale said it right: if you go to a place like Marble, expect all that you find there; whether or not you find it tolerable is irrelevant if taken in that context. Getting mad about what you find there is like throwing a bag over your own head and then yelling "WHO TURNED OUT THE LIGHTS?!?!?"

Rod,I was in there last August. Jackass Pass is a bit tedious because of talus and some up and down but it doesn't take that long. From the pass, angle down and left instead of heading toward Lonesome Lake, and you'll come down into a nice basin to camp, right in the heart of the Cirque and close to all the good climbs. I'll second Chris' recommendation on Wolf's Head and the south buttress of Pingora- definitely try to simul on Wolf's Head, but beware for your second that the follower is also leading on that climb- many traverses. It's definitely the most unique "5.6" I've done- some relatively intimidating pitches for the grade, and with a whole LOT of exposure to go with it. Don't be up there, or anywhere up high, in late afternoon if thunderheads are around, and they likely will be in July and August. Another route I did that I highly recommend was the "east face/left side cracks" of Pingora- not the Northeast, which is the 50 crowded (supposed to be good also, but we didn't do it). the east face is a little easier and less sustained than the northeast, and way less crowded. It is about 10 or 11 pitches, 8 of which are about 5.7, with one variation that is 5.9- or so. The rock is absolutely the best. There are a few wide cracks so take a #4 camalot. but mostly it is hand cracks and even some face climbing, on clean granite with a beautiful view behind. Five stars. Sharks Nose and Overhanging Tower also are supposed to be really good, and quite moderate. Some folks we met in there had been over in the valley south of Jackass Pass- on Haystack Mountain (check the Guidebook)- said no one was over there at all, and Haystack had some great climbing routes. Also some nice summits in there- East Temple, Temple, etc. with moderate <5.6 routes, really aesthetic. Bears didn't seem to be a problem, but you'll want to hang your food to keep the mice and squirrels out of it. look for big overhanging boulders, some people have balanced large sticks on top from which to hang food.Enjoy! [ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: W ]

quote: Originally posted by Dru: So - Rod said No Great Climbers ever post here. Then when told they did he said that he never said what he said.... But see, Rod has an agenda. He will quote from anonymous personal email sent to him to bolster his point or mention his friendship with Carlos Buhler or any other dirty tactic but not cough up and admit that his original point was made not as an honest question but rather as a sneaky lead in to his concern about the spray on this site. Oh well PS If Rachel Babkirk and Christine Boskoff came upon Dan Larson smoking a bowl with Fred Beckey in Muir Hut, how many bolts would get placed on Dan's Dreadful Direct to compensate? Answers by 4:20, class. Dru you forgot to include the part about RURP being there and shitting his goretex suit in the Muir hut.

Oh, come on RURP, give us one of the many big wall dump stories we know you are withholding. We really care!

Point well taken, Peter. I'm not suggesting that famous climbers are all arrogant and "above" posting or providing info. I'm merely pointing out that most "famous" climbers, whether they want to admit it or not, are at least partially conscious of their celebrity status even if they have not pursued it directly, and would be shy about posting here not for fear of being sprayed but for not wanting to risk portraying a know it all or intrusive approach. The big name climbers often live in enclosed circles and stay there, for the energy level among that group attracts others of that level. Nothing I've posted implies anything about said individuals. I'm poking fun because it would be funny to imagine a famous, top end climber, partaking in a TYPICAL discussion that goes on here. That's all. Most of these "greats" are great human beings when you meet them and you quickly find out they put their pants on one leg at a time like everyone else- and will gratefully help you out with a question if you just ask. They also I would guess tend to appear insolent when approached by someone giving off to them a gaper vibe- which to me would signal that they don't want to be worshipped.

TR by Steve: "Hi everyone. I just climbed a new mixed route on Bungwater Mountain in the Pickets. It's that obvious 3800' high smear of coca-cola ice on the left side of the north face, that I'm sure everyone's been looking at for the last few years. The last five or six trips I've taken in there in the winter over the past two seasons, it's never been in! but finally it looked good. That three day approach was getting tiring. The line is awesome! It's no harder than WI7X or so, but if you can frig in a couple of stubbies on the crux pitch, you won't have to run it out more than about 80 feet or so. I was really pumped so I didn't bother with placing any protection after I dutifully protected my belay, but it's all there. Don't bother with bivi gear, it goes in about 41 hours. Bring one ice hook and about eight screws, maybe a handful of KBs and have the time of your life. Cheers, everyone, see you at Pub Club! My Pakistan trip got pushed back three days so I'll be able to make this time. -Steve"

2 wild country friends equalized with two hotwires and a new spectra runner and a locking biner on Green Dragon in the big flake on p2. "Gee, rather than spend 30 minutes or less downaiding, or finishing the pitch, think I'll leave 120 dollars worth of gear right here..." Maybe they had an epic or injury? Either way, it was a bountiful harvest for me and my partner.

Can anyone picture this post coming from Steve House: "hey guys! my name's Steve, and I live up in the Methow. I've been up at Washington Pass the past three weeks guiding backcountry skiing, and then I had to go briefly to guide a Robson winter ascent, then did a couple fifty mile ski traverses with my wife, but now I'm back home and I'm wondering if anyone's climbed Liberty Crack lately? Does anyone know how bad the snow is getting up to the base? Do you think I should bring crampons? How about the aid pitch? Does anyone know the status of the fixed gear? Will there be snow all over it? Do you think I should bring pitons? How much food should I bring? what kind of crampons do you prefer for approaches at washington pass? Please reply soon cause I'm leaving tomorrow and I'll have to make a lot of decisions about this. ps- what are your favorite 60 hour single push ascent routes?"

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Jon – Your comments are well taken. I hope that the group learns to moderate itself. W – By Low-brow I didn’t mean a discussion of easy routes and such but threads about shitting and so for. As far as decrying something - I unabashedly decry threads like that. Do I decry threads like the one concerning North Face presenter? Yes. Many of the posts were terribly insulting and just plain nasty. To the extent we do not speak out against such behavior regardless of its impact on the site we are letting ourselves, and in my opinion, Jon down as well. Many including yourself have concluded that this behavior drives away many. It matters not whether they are great or not. Their absence detracts from this site. Word up, Peter P. Not sure I think that people, "great" or not, are to a man, or woman, driven away per se, so much as they either find the topics interesting or they don't. To go along with the poo-threads there are many articulate and intelligent threads in which to partake here. Surely people are not so closed-minded that the existence of threads about shitting your pants stories makes not contributing to something else that is intelligent unworthy. I think Forrest hit a good point which I touched on as well- that this is a generally localized site- the cascades- and maybe some climbers are interested in something more general, or wider based. People keep saying that so many people "don't post here". So what? Should it be a mandate to get everyone to come here? As I said, much of what gets discussed here is utter banality- but even I know how and when to have fun with it, if I choose to do so. Look at my two shit stories, which more than one person seems to have enjoyed. It's a slice of the real world- high end climbers surely are not immune to discussing their toilet habits- Twight makes a point to mention in his Bradley story how the ravens dug through their latrine bags while they were up climbing and then crapped all over their tents. And this made it into Climbing Magazine. So there's something for everyone here, if one is inclined to participate. If not, that's just their own choice and let's not assume in totality they think they are either "too cool" to participate, or "driven away" by the spray thugs.

I don't know for sure, Peter, what do you think it is? It could be a different reason for each individual. But i think we've established that more than one well-known climber, and more than just a few accomplished climbers post here. What seems to be at issue is why the really really famous ones don't post here. you and I don't know what it is like to be a celebrity, so how can we speak for all of them? However, I would venture to guess that someone who is so accomplished as to have become well known, sponsored, what have you- has such a wide circle of friends, contacts, information sources, and social schedule, not to mention going climbing constantly, that they have no time, need or reason to post here. As for your precise question about the low brow: well, how many average alpinists would go sit in on a member discussion at the mountaineer's clubhouse to get some information on climbs and conditions? This isn't meant to bash the mountaineers (there's already a thread for that as we all know), but even if one doesn't consider oneself ethically or morally superior or superior for climbing harder than them, few would want to consult the mountaineers if one isn't a member. The energy levels are just different and the mountaineers attract a certain kind of person, while repelling others. The other thing is- as far as a beta-gathering standpoint is concerned- the great climbers likely do 100 percent of their own analysis and ask their inner circle of friends if they have questions. Often, and most importantly- they don't need to ask anyone. They just know how to figure it out. As far as social discussions- yes, I will assert that a high end climber,while not necessarily snubbing "average" or weekend climbers- will tend to gravitate towards those with similar energy levels. Does this mean this is a low-energy site with low-energy people? Not at all. There are some people here who do some epic, high energy stuff. But I would guess that- and this is not a denigrating statement by any means- that the bulk of the posters here tend to be weekend climbers; the more serious climbers, even many of the unknown hardmen and women here- and there are quite a few- are often reticent about their accomplishments and not outspoken. The famous climbers, while not necessarily arrogant or insolant, are rarely reticent or exceedingly private- they got famous by speaking and advertising their accomplishments whether through photography, writing, spray, seeking of sponsorship, or just doing such groundbreaking and bold stuff that the world noticed without them hardly trying (House, Stump, Porter as examples). That in itself is a different level of energy. So in one sense I might be suggesting that Cascadeclimbers is a website composed of a cross section of the entire climbing culture, and these guys in some cases are just way out on the fringe in their relationships to the climbing community, or moreover, don't see any significance in it as community. Who knows? Moreover, maybe some of these guys don't care about climbing in the Cascades. The site is called Cascadeclimbers.com. Few people get famous for climbing in the Cascades (exceptions of course, but not too many recent R+I spreads on FA's and world class ascents in Washington). They get famous by going elsewhere. And while there's lots of hard routes and good training here, it is still only a warm up for other places like the Rockies and Alaska and the Himalaya. We could analyze this to death, but I don't think this is an issue worth decrying over as if something is so wrong.

Can't disagree Rod- for the most part that's probably all true. I again would suggest that for many of these climbers, it's not that they are "above" talking about mellow climbs or whatever, it's that 1) they are mostly out climbing and not on the computer, and 2) the typical discussion here is truthfully an ongoing babble of highly unsubstantial, insignificant banter, whether it is smearing or not smearing. Few of what gets posted here is about direct information exchange, most of it is conversation. Busy climbers who climb year round have better things to do, and better resources to get their information from. If they meet you in person and you ask them a question- sure they'll help you. They just don't lurk the boards dying to jump at the chance to answer someone's question about conditions on the Tooth. High-end climbers got that way by a high energy level and gravitating towards others with similar levels. Contributing posts to topics about diarrhea, clothing manufacturer ethics, furor over smoking in the Muir hut, on and on...and with a group of people few of which they actually know- I think most people just flat out aren't interested in joining this board.

word, Dru. From what I gather, Rod, your definition of GREAT seems to have been narrowed down to people who either CONSIDER themselves great, or are household names made so by their status as media whores- or both, because some qualify in both areas. There's sort of this inferiority complex stink emanating here- like, "everyone here is so snotty it's no wonder famous climbers don't want to be associated with this site". Besides the fact that personalities differ greatly, guys like House are out climbing and not sitting behind a computer terminal 40 hours a week and going on one or two big trips a year. The rest of us surf this site because we are bored at work! What's the point of asking this question?

Here's a another gem: my old friend Ken Davies tells of climbing up the Emmons one night. A woman in his large group has to do #2 in the middle of the climb. She goes off to the side in the darkness and everyone respectfully looks away. Two climbing teams approach side by side. Ken says to them "hey everyone, there's a lady going to the bathroom over here so be polite and don't shine your headlamps over there please". Ken tells it like this: "(laughing)..So of course what do they do? All seven or eight of them look over simultaneously and their headlamp beams converge right on her ass, and here's this nine inch banana comin' out !" The woman was of course mortified.

Rurp, I've been wondering where you went. Maybe even you will appreciate that big wall crap story.

The all-time Yosemite wall story: Three friends climbing The Shield had their fudge tube accidently detach from the haul bag while they were hauling two pitches above Grey Ledges. The pitch leading to Grey Ledges is a horrid, polished, narrow torture tube of a chimney/slot rated "5.8". In any case, if you are in it there is no escape. As was the case for a certain, to remain nameless, well known climber, who was in the process of leading the pitch when this big shit bomb exploded at the top of the slot after a 300+ foot free fall, COVERING him in three people's one to two day old fecal debris. Said one of my friends later: "We didn't want to laugh cause we felt horrible, but his voice notched up about five octaves to this high pitched squeal-- "GOD DAMMIT!!! I've got SHIT all OVER me!!! It's in my HAIR, its in the SLINGS, its in the ROPES, it's in the ETRIERS! F$#$#@%*))!!! " The worst part was that he was apparently on his honeymoon with his new wife for the Triple Direct. They bailed the next day.