mattp

No disrespect to Nobody, but if you want to climb a real North Cascade peak, with multiple glaciers on it, Baker and Shuksan are the easiest peaks to reach in March. On Baker, the road up Glacier Creek to the Coleman Glacier route is often open pretty far up by then, and the snowmobile launch point on the road up from Baker Lake is not too far from the bottom of the Sulphide (if you don't want to share the climb with those motor heads, don't go this way). For Shuksan, the approach to the White Salmon Glacier from the ski area is very short (though both the approach and the route itself can be extremely dangerous and the route takes you through so many different elevation zones and aspects that there will almost certainly be something unstable somewhere along the way). As DPS noted, the Sulphide is generally a safer route, and in March the road toward the Sulphide is often open to within 4 or 5 miles of the Summer trailhead. You noted North Twin, and this would be a good choice but snowpack and/or gated roads may be an issue. Another reasonable choice might be Whitehorse via the Snow Gulch route. It is a 6,000 or 7,000 foot climb in terrain that frequently sees very large avalanches, but in the right conditions it can be fun.

When I was there, I am not sure that High Camp had a right to exclude other snowmobilers but the Camp was operated on a license with the USFS and they rented and plowed the parking area next to the train tracks next to highway 2, as well as maintained the road and did some occasional grooming. Because the customers at High Camp don't want to hear snowmobiles, I recall that Bill had a sign at the Midway point, asking other snowmobilers to have their fun on the road system that branches off westward from that point, and they generally respected this. Occasionally someone would head up there, usually during the week, and rip it up on the clearcuts near High Camp, and once in a while they would show up at camp and share a drink with Peg and Bill, but that was about it. You might have a right to drive your sled up there, and I'm not sure what they'd say if you stopped at Camp and asked. However, in my opinion it would be rude even if it was perfectly within your right to do so, because you know that people who pay lots of money to go up there and ski in a semi-wilderness setting do not want to hear you or see your track on a ski trail (and the road beyond High Camp toward Lake Julius is one of their ski trails in the sense not that they own it, but in the sense that it is one of the most obvious ways out of camp toward the wilderness). When I was there, we would occasionally "groom" a track by driving a snowmobile out that road but we only did so if the snow was real heavy and there would be enough new snow before the weekend to at least partially cover the snowmobile track -- otherwise, our guests always complained about the intrusion of such a sign of civilization into their wilderness experience. That's just my opinion. Ask them.

Philfort- We had fairly good (not great) snow in the woods between 4,500 and 5,500 over below Colchuck.

Too bad they are not taking advantage of what they have up there. The high country up there in the headwaters of Roaring Creek (Lake Julius et al) and also in the upper Chiwaukum Creek drainage has a tremendous amount of easily accessible skiing in alpine (really subalpine)terrain.

George Sherrit and I went to look at that thing in 1983, and on that occasion we climbed a small piece of it, just left of the main flow. I'm pretty sure George went back and climbed the main pillar, perhaps with Jack Lewis. It is reliable ice climb that stays formed most of the winter and I would guess it to be 100 feet high, pretty much vertical. I worked at "High Camp" for one season and spent a couple of years up there, helping out part time. When I was up there, we maintained a ski route from Lake Julius to Lock Eileen and customers from High Camp routinely skied up past all three lakes to reach a viewpoint up on the Chiwaukum Crest that we called "Baldy," a gentle pyramid that overlooks Highway 2.

Pope, You've been taken over by the dark side. You are missing an opportunity to spiritually connect with the essential wildness of the mountains. I feel for you, my man.

Cavey - We know that Seattle is a long way from the east side, but don't let your argument with Dwayner spoil your enthusiasm for such a vital activity as swilling beer.

So, just to be clear: is Lambone Alpine Buddy? Does this mean he is morally and socially obligated to show up at the Nickerson Tavern tonight? And what about the guy who nominated him? Dru, it's not such a long drive, really.

Do you still have that stove? What does it look like, how bulky and heavy, etc.?

quote: Originally posted by mikeadam: I don't understand how in the middle of February you can begin to imply that the ski season is anywhere near to being over Right on, Mike. The peak snowpack usually comes some time about March and the ski areas all shut down just when the real ski season really gets going. But I think Pope was talking about those worthless lazy uncool commercialized lemmings who ride the lifts. Anybody who'd do that - well, you just know they have no brains and you have to question their sexual identification. They are the same type you will find out chasing bolts, eh Pope? [ 02-19-2002: Message edited by: mattp ]

Sorry Cavey, I just wasn't quite up for it. The run down the Colchuck Glacier was very enjoyable, however. Like Alpine K says, "big drops rule." Here's a couple of pictures in the couloir:

Listen up, guys. We don't want nobody getting burried on Hubba Hubba Hill. But wait and see what happens with the weather this week before making your plans. Yesterday, Sunday, was pretty warm over there and the snow was wet all the way up to about 4500 feet. Here's a picture taken on Saturday, 2/16.

quote: Originally posted by geordie:[QB]Mattp still thinks it's a conspiracy when Gator and I try and hook him up with bad beta...QB] Can you guys pull that shit off without a conspiracy? No offense intended. You, Mike, and people like you give the NPS and the USFS a good name among climbers like me. But I HAVE had the experience of mostly being told bullshit for thirty years, and this experience has been shared by most of my peers. Meeting you, and dealing with rangers like Kevin (who used to work at the Glacier service center) has made a difference in my thinking. But I still believe there is an institutional bias in favor of resource extraction (USFS) and concessionaires (NPS) and in disfavor of climbers or (to a lesser extent) hikers. I believe in you guys and I support anyone who may be trying to do well in whatever their profession, but I won't stop complaining about what I see as that "institutional bias" (based perhaps on both politics and human nature) until I see the situation change. It is getting better, I think, but so far only incrementally so. Incidentally, I attended a "potluck" recently where I thought that someone from the Portland office (what is it, region VI USFS) made what I thought was a good point - that climbers protest the Fee Demo program but few of them support funding for trail maintenance through any other means - and I have posted that idea on the CC.COM board three times in a week. I'm not against the NPS or the USFS, but I'm for preservation of public lands and the maintenance of public access--and I think that, on balance, climbing and hiking are a good thing that has not received adequate support from our public agencies. This may be because climbers and hikers have not, as a user group, been as politically organized as loggers or hoteliers, and this may not be your fault, but I believe it is a reality. Mattp [ 02-18-2002: Message edited by: mattp ]

This is not "beta" because I have not been there but only looked at my guidebook when I got home from work. But: Skilllet Glacier is said by Ortenburger to be "not a route for beginning climbers inexperienced in the use of a rope and ice axe." The Northeast Ridge, nearby, is noted as a "standard route" for Mt. Moran (it has the little finger sign next to it as does the CMC route)and the text describing the Northeast Ridge describes a plane crash as being one of the scenic attractions on the route. Perhaps Kevin Page climbed that route and descended the Skillet???

Can somebody help me with the html here?

I believe Dru is referring to the prow with a shadow behind it. Zippy named that the “Butt-rest” and the prior generation (Whitelaw, Greyell, Constantino et al) called it the “Dick Ridge Buttress” because of a striking formation above the Butt Rest, higher up (is there a theme here?). I believe the prow (prominent in Tom’s picture) has a route called “Looks Like a Bad Sign” and the route that was done “all free on first ascent” is on what appears to be two or three buttresses to the left (the cleanest one) in the picture on Tom’s page.

I agree with Alex. The NE Couloir would be a difficult and dangerous line to ski. The “Caveman Direct” might be a better choice (I think Cavey’s Couloir is the right-hand couloir in this view (NE Couloir is middle-left): <IMG>http://www.seanet.com/~mattp/Colchuck/NEface.jpg</IMG> [ 02-18-2002: Message edited by: mattp ]

By the way, as of yesterday (2/17) the snowpack was VERY stable on Colchuck Peak. It hadn't snowed for a week prior to our climb, and when the snow fell it had been pretty sticky as it was still on trees at the lake and surprisingly plastered to the rock faces higher up. Even the wind-deposited "snow pillows" would not fail when we did our best to chop, kick, hack at and generally destroy them. We travelled on a variety of aspects from N to E to S to SW, and the snow surface was generally firm (icy in places, simply windblown in others, and in some locations tere was some well-adhered "powder" on top). It snowed lightly on and off; we had frequent spindrift avalanches in the couloir and the stability may be on its way out. [ 02-18-2002: Message edited by: mattp ]

The Skillet Glacier route starts from the shore of Jackson Lake, and it would be at least 5 miles of canoeing. The lake is very large and could be windy. It might not be easy to follow the shoreline. The CMC routes starts from Leigh Lake, and I believe the canoeing would be about half that distance, with a better chance of following the shoreline if it was windy.

With luck, maybe you can get a ride to and from the Skillet Glacier route with somebody who is touring the lake with a cooler full of beer. This happened to a friend of mine.

Rodchester, Mr. K is right – A Climbers Guide to the Teton Range by Leigh N. Ortenburger, Reynold G. Jackson. You asked about Mt. Moran, and I believe the CMC is probably the most fun easy route (Skillet Glacier might be worth a look), but you might also be interested in a route I did on Middle Teton many years back, the Chouinard Rib. I did this climb with a party of five, most of whom had no interest in rock climbing, and it was a very enjoyable outing, on good rock. I believe it may have been 2,000 feet high, but was mostly scrambling and we belayed one pitch on a wet slab. It was in the sun the whole way, and there was almost no snow on the route (it faces south). I've read route reports where others did not think this was a good climb. I'm not sure why -- maybe they were looking for something that was more than a scramble, or maybe route finding is an issue. Anyway, you indicated that you might even look for a scramble, and this is a route that is little more than a scramble but leads to the top of a major Teton Peak (the route tops out right at the summit) and it is probably not crowded. I'm not sure it is in the current guide (I'm back at work now and can't check), but maybe K or Erik can look it up for you. [ 02-18-2002: Message edited by: mattp ]

While home for lunch, I checked the Orgenburger book. He says that the climb out of the notch back up Drizzlepuss (not Snagglepuss)can be 5.7 (straight up) or a 5.5 traverse out rightward.

Thanks ChucK. I'll head out there this afternoon and try it!

CMC is a good choice, and Freeclimb is right on. One thing to mention is that on the downclimb you have to climb a steep wall, perhaps 60 feet high and slightly overhanging and probably 5.6 or so, to get back over the Snagglepuss. Some parties leave a rope hanging here. At least that is what I remember.

How was the pro on Great Northern Slab? Can I get down with a single rope? How many draws will I want?