mattp

B-rock is right. Smith Butte is a "reasonable" trailhead right now, but the regular South side road to Morrison Creek is usually open by June, and the higher Cold Springs trailhead by late June or possibly early July. For more discussion, search old posts. This inquiry pops up on this board at least every couple of months.

Ditto what Puget said. In my opinion, weight is over-emphasized as a selection criteria. Personally, I like the Aliens in the smaller sizes (they are light, very flexible and they place in a greater variety of placements than most, but they get sticky faster and you can't shove them in beyond your reach as easily as with a TCU) and in the larger sizes, I like Camelots (on the heavy side, but I just like the way they feel). And I agree with Ray -- I like the tiny ones. Ray - you complained of wobbly cams where hexes would have been more secure. Were you climbing at Tieton, perhaps? That is an unusual affliction but I have seen it over there at Tieton quite a bit.

A quorum was achieved at 6pm, the meeting called to order. Motions were made. Rules were adopted. The tango was performed by Alpine K and Fendel. Alex gave a talk on how to get rich publishing guidebooks and Ehmmic gave us a demonstration of her newly honed beach-lounging technique, barely moving from her chair by the window all night long. The meeting nearly adjourned at 11:00 p.m., when all the deadbeats put on their coats to leave and we hastily called for the server to bring us the tab. Imagine our surpise when we discovered that those bums had actually paid their bill and there was over $150.00 sitting on the table. Allison showed up and the meeting reconvened. But after all the talk, Icegirl was a no-show? A hearty top-of-the morning to you lads and lasses who are already at work, the morning after St. PubClub's Day, savoring the smell of stale beer and cigarette smoke remaining on your clothes because you didn't make it home before heading to work. Beck, did you hit any fire hydrants on the way home? This may have been the biggest PubClub yet: BeckHikerwaMattpEhmmic009Figger EightDave SchuldtEddie_ERodeo KevinDavid ParkerAlpine KLizard BrainHollyclimberSayjayAir-ich (erik)Victoria (v)Henry BarberEd HobbickErick WilkerGergSirikitJoe KaniaAlexW Charlie Don't SurfJonWayne1112!AlMenzlBill H (To-the-top)ForrestWAllison

Beacon Rock is also within that range (3 hrs?) but the bird closures will be in effect at least part of the summer.

There are some crack climbs on the buildings at the Evergreen campus, too, but for "trad" climbing, I think the extra drive to Tieton would more than pay off as compared with going to Fossil. What would that be, two 1/2 hours? Index 3, and Leavenworth 3 1/2? By the way, Paul, Olympia is a nice place to spend the summer. Enjoy.

Right on Jon. I think your tone is absolutely correct -- the crude and childish banter, followed with whining about same, and then cries for "where are the moderators," makes all of this sound like gradeschool. (I am not referring specifically to the most recent threads -- this pattern has repeated itself over and over again on this board.) From my perspective, it HAS helped for you to pull a couple of threads, however. Sure, some of the sprayers whined about censorship, but I think they also have been forced to recognize that there are some limits and at least in some small measure I think the obnoxiousness has eased slightly over what it was, say, six months ago. If the demise of "Caveman" was an editorial decision, I would think it appropriate for that to be publicized -- for the same reason. Maybe we need a set of rules. See Rules of Spray (ROS) 1.1 (Don't be a jerk); but see ROS 1.2 (some of that shit is FUNNY). [ 03-16-2002: Message edited by: mattp ]

As far as Avatars go, I think Smokey McPot is one of the best. You guys know I don't like all that gratuitous spray-combative-insulting bullshit, but c'mon -- one of you spraylords ought to jump on this one! Good natured guy (I assume he's a guy because I believe 90% of all potheads are male), who just wants to have fun. And every time he logs on, you know he's a smartass just by his screen name.

I think SpecialEd is right about the ovals for aid climbing. For free climbing, I prefer the Petzl Spirit because it is reasonably light and the key gate doesn't catch on things (this is especially noticeable when racking pins or multiples of stoppers). However, they are expensive, the active end you clip to things is too wide for some funky old hangers with very small holes on them, and the keyhole sometimes ices up in wet snow situations. I have found unclipping to be more of a problem with the Hotwires than any other biner I have ever used, though where I have noticed it is where I have had racked gear come undone more than when I have had the lead rope come unclipped. I haven't used the nutrinos enough to know if they behave similarly).

The W side of Broken Top is pretty moderate up to within just a few hundred feet of the top and it makes a good ski run. I would rate it at an intermediate level. It can be done in a day from Bachelor, but it is easier if you wait until you can drive to Fall Creek trailhead (that trailhead is probably not more than 3 or possibly 4 miles from the snowpark, so it wouldn't take much more than an hour each direction to walk). You wouldn't have to go around to the W. side to get up Broken Top -- you could go through the crater -but it makes a better ski run that way.

Thanks Rodchester. Along a similar vein, let me add that I believe we may not want to adopt Scott Silver and his Wild Wilderness organization as our torch bearer, either. While I am grateful for his efforts to bring this important issue to public attention, and I hope he sticks with it, I have also heard that Scott Silver may be a contentious fellow who unnecessarily alienates people. I suggest that if anyone is going to write their congressperson or call the Forest Service, they do at least some of their own research and do not simply cut-and-paste something from Wild Wilderness. Before undertaking political action, we should all think for our selves anyway, and your messages will be more effective this way, whether or not you have questions about Scott Silver's leadership and communication style. I have heard from Access Fund people that Mr. Silver was very divisive in the meetings between climbers and the Forest Service, and I've heard through the grapevine that he has taken stances against climbing (not just against bolting) in discussions of recreational access. Whether this is true or not, I am sure that many of you who would protest or write your congressperson about fee demo would not want to be seen as opposed to non-motorized recreational access on public lands, and I would suggest that you take every opportunity to clarify that you believe that this access should be protected and, as W noted, paid for with tax money or revenue from some other source.

A moderately large flow forms on the NW face of The Castle just about every year. I haven't been up there this year, but in the past it has been 100 to 200 feet high, somewhat tiered, with bulges up to perhaps 60 or 70 degrees. It seems to me that the top of the usual formation is in or close to a group of small trees. I've noticed it when I was up there skiing, or climbing Pinnacle Peak's N. Ridge, and have occasionally thought it might be worth a look. I've never heard of anybody actually heading up there to climb it. [ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: mattp ]

Keith: Consider GRPC 2.2(3)(a) (this form of lameness can be remedied by showing up at the next PubClub, or as soon as practicable, and buying a round).

I agree with W. Try taking off your skis, and kicking up the slope with one ski in each hand, turned upside down so the bindings claw at the snow. After all, it's not real Cascade backcountry skiing if you don't do the doggie crawl somewhere along the way.

Lizard -I don't remember the size number, but I could check when I go home. As to the belt, I agree that if you are carrying a light load it is not as important as it might be for a heavy load, and the thinner belt may be more acceptable. However, I generally hike the pack up so that the belt is completely above my hips rather than wrapping around the hips as so many salespeople seem to suggest, and even with the full on McHale waist belt I find the interference with my harness to be acceptable. The issue may relate as much to the type of harness you wear as it does the type of waist strap on your pack. For mountaineering, I generally use a lighter harness that has no gear loops on it, but for rock climbing I wear a harness with gear loops that hang below rather than tilting out above the waist strap. And although these remain accessible, I tend to use them less because, particularly for those gear loops in back, I frequently find it clumsy to fumble around below the pack when reaching for gear. I do at times fumble with or have to unclip the pack-belt buckles when clipping/unclipping an anchor at my waist, so sometimes I will use the loop of the climbing rope that is my tie-in point as a belay loop, or when rappelling I will sometimes add an extra locking ‘biner at my waist and rappel off the second ‘biner in a chain. - Matt

GRPC 2.1 (The rulebook is to be on hand at all times); see also GRPC 2.2 (all PubClub drinking is encouraged to be undertaken in conformance with the following standards (1) non-alcholic beaverages are acceptable, but sickly-sweet coctails containing just a touch of alcohol are to be frowned upon; (2) when drinking beer, pitchers are preferred over single servings; (3) skipping out on the tab is lame; (4) where is the single malt?

For lighter loads, I like my Arcteryx Khamshin. But when I"m going to carry a stove and tent, rock rack, and a couple days' food, I much prefer the McHale. The extra pount or two of pack weight more than makes up for itself when I'm putting even a moderate load in it. [ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: mattp ]

Chuck - Check the rules. See RCPC 5.1 (the first proponent of a venue has the presumptive right to "set" that venue as the site for the next meeting). I think the proposed 5.1 (a)(proposed)(attendees at a meeting of the PubClub have the option of setting the venue for the following week's meeting and thereby trumping any prior proposal as to the venue for the following week's meeting) may not have seen formal action. Where's the secretary? - Matt

Allison - I think you may be referring to RCPC 4.2 (proposed) (in order to avoid confusion, the final selection of the venue for a meeting of the PubClub shall be made at least four hours and no more than forty eight hours prior to the onset of the drinking). Also, I am sure you realize that malice, trickery, corruption, bribery, and "a lot of other bad things" would fall under the "bad faith" provision, RCPC 5.3 (noted above). - Matt

The roads leading to rock climbs in Clear Creek, Copper Creek, and Squire Creek have been hammered this winter. The Squire Creek road, number 2040, has been hit by a massive mudslide which blocks the road somewhere between one and two miles before the end, and I am told by the roadway person in the Darrington Ranger Station that they will very likely establish a new trailhead at the site where the road is blocked by this slide. http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/mbs/recreport/squire_creek.htm The Clear Creek Road, number 2060, has a small washout that threatens to block the road just a few hundred yards from the Mountain Loop Highway, and the same roadway person in the Darrington office indicates that they will probably repair that damage pretty soon. Meanwhile, the road is currently passable for a mile or two, and it is then blocked by avalanche debris that cover the road somewhere at least a couple of miles from the trailheads for Exfoliation Dome and Three O'Clock Rock. Once the snow melts, and assuming that neither of these two slides has completely blocked the road, we believe the remainder of the Clear Creek Road is OK and the Forest Service has even indicated some interest in adding a culvert on the Copper Creek road extension beyond Three O'Clock Rock, heading toward Green Giant Buttress. With the approval of the Darrington ranger station, we performed some volunteer maintenance on the road toward Exfoliation Dome and at the end of the Copper Creek road last fall. Once the blockage down valley is clear and the season gets underway, parking for the popular "Dreamer" will be improved over last year.

Be careful, Alpine K. You may run afoul of the rules here. I believe the record will show that somewhere in Monday's discussion there was a certain pub on Greenwood Avenue North that was suggested for the next meeting. If we look at the Revised Code of Pub Club (RCPC) rulebook, we may be bound to at least consider that proposal. See RCPC 5.1 (the first proponent of a venue has the presumptive right to "set" that venue as the site for the next meeting); see also RCPC 1.1(f) ("proponent" is defined to a "member" who sets forth a proposal); see also RCPC 1.1(d)( "member" shall mean any person who attends one or more meeting of PubClub, or adds more than ten posts to the CC.Com bulletin board, or others as the M.ofC. shall allow); see also RCPC 1.1(e) ("M.ofC." is defined to mean that "member" who may take it upon his-self or herself to attempt to coordinate this motley bunch into a cohesive organization for the consumption of alcohol and greasy food). Now, of course, we have to consider the fact that the place for next week's site is not yet established. We had, on Monday, the Greenwood Avenue proposal, and last night there was mention of the Alki Tavern (who do you think would propose that dive?) and then there was some discussion of the "Owl and Thistle." We do not know what may happen between now and next week. Consider RCPC 5.2 (that member with the presumptive right to "set" the site has the option of withdrawing that proposal unless at least three "members" have confirmed their agreement with the proposal prior to that member's exercising this right of withdrawal); see also RCPC 5.3 (shall a "member" set forth a proposal in bad faith, e.g. if they do so only with the intent to harass or annoy all those good polite members who conduct theirselves in good faith, if they propose a venue that doesn't even serve beer, or if they suggest a place that does not exist, that member's privileges as proponent shall lapse); see also RCPC 5.4 (shall a member propose a venue that "truly sucks," the M.ofC. may, upon receipt of sworn testimony from at least ten pub club members that the proposed venue truly sucks, declare that proposal void); see also RCPC 1.1(h) ( "truly sucks" shall mean a place that (1) serves no alcohol, (2) has a dress code that will not allow a genuine "member" to enter the venue, or suffers from some other structural defect rendering the place incapable of hosting Pub Club; "truly sucks" does not mean "merely inconvenient"). All of this must be viewed in the context of the General Rules of Pub Club (GRPC) rule 1.1, (as amended): "the venue for Pub Club Meetings shall rotate such that most meetings will be held closest to the "highest concentration of the members' home addresses," but at least one meeting every three or four weeks is to be held outside the city where that highest concentration of the members' home addresses" shall lie); see also GRPC 1.2 (as amended) (the "highest concentration of the members' home addresses" is presumed to lie within two miles of the Fremont Bridge, in Seattle.

Lizard - Just take a couple of 'ludes with one of the last beers, and I'm sure you can stay mellow when pulled over.

What's up with everyone saying they'd repeat Liberty Crack? I thought it was a good climb, but after the first five pitches the climbing quickly deteriorated and I thought it was a great line but far from the "classic" that it is reputed to be. Once was enough for me, unless I had a partner who was truly desparate to do it.

The West Ridge of Pidgeon Spire in the Bugaboos is JUST PLAIN FUN. At class three, with a 5.4 finish, you won't get any points in the hardman collumn, but it is surely one of the best alpine jaunts around. Closer to home, the E. Buttress on South Early Winter Spire is a great route, with a high fun-to-work ratio. Also, Davis Holland with the Lovin' Arms finish at Index Town Wall has got to be one of the best 5.10 outings in the State.

Dan Larson - It would definitely not suck if you were to show up in Issaquah.

How about lawn darts?