mattp

Brian- I have repeatedly noted that I routinely carry a 24" picket but almost never use it in the Cascades. For a belay in firm snow, I just about always kick, stomp or dig a ledge big enough that I can feel comfortable without the picket. For intermediate protection, I almost never feel secure relying upon one and look for other alternatives. I still carry it -- don't get me wrong -- but I can't remember the last time that I hammered in a picket and thought "thank god - I can relax now." As far as the cable? I think that in our snowpack, pickets are probably most useful buried deadman-style where the cable is obvously most suited. Alternatively, just put a 'biner on the top (or at snow-surface level if the picket doesn't penetrate all the way), and run the cable through the 'biner.

Fairweather- I believe you are right that if we (the U.S.) had not threatened to use force, the inspectors would not be there now. Does that mean that, as George Bush says, time is up? Should we invade right now or what further circumstances should occur before we do? Prey tell.

Yo Fairweather: Down boy. I could be wrong, but I believe you have propounded some pretty heavy assertions about the motives and agenda of the gutless liberals on this bulletin board who want to deprive you of your liberty. If Alpine K is wrong about your position on the War, tell us about it.

No. It's those anarchists I'm worried about. I think they've taken her somewhere and are probably doing terrible things to her....

Can somebody go check on Muffy? It's awfully quiet.... too quiet.

You are correct. I can only speculate what the facts may be.

If I had all the facts, I bet I would be LESS likely to support the current war.

I agree that it is difficult to place pro in the crack when using lieback technique, but it is a bit of an overstatement to suggest that one should never do it when on lead. I certainly use lieback technique more when I am following than when leading but, as Dru said, it can be easier and quicker than jamming.

Somebody dial 911. I think the anarchists have kidnapped Muffy and taken over her computer.

What? Have they now turned agains the Oregon Country Fair, too?

In fact, you folks down there are actively cloning them, aren't you?

We're not talking WTO here.

Trask - You misunderstand the situation. The rally is on the Honey-Do list.

Muffy, I am hurt that you would say I am boring you. You are right that a large group of emotional fanatics is not safe, but most of the poeple who have attended peace marches at any time since the Vietnam era have not been in any kind of emotionally charged state. It is fair enough to express your concerns and I wouldn't expect you to want to be some place where you might feel at risk, but I was responding to the statement that "peace marches often turn violent" and I believe that is completely untrue.

Good point, Muffy. I should perhaps take such polls with a grain of salt. But allowing for some error in the analysis, it still amazes me that ANYBODY could believe those things. You may think it it time to go into Iraq, but how could you think Iraq was responsible for 9/11 if you have been reading the newspapers - even the most conservative ones - for the last two years? Apparently, we here on the West coast are living in an isolated enclave. Some guy on NPR was saying just yesterday that opinions in the hinterlands and even in the socially liberal Northeast are very different from those held on the West Coast when it comes to this war.

Another recent poll said over 50% believed the former.

Its not my fault, Muffy, that you can't see the difference between a bunch of environmental activists who go beserk over the cutting of a tree in downtown Eugene and a broad coaliation of churches, various political groups, and even some veterans' organizations.

Mtnrgr- I agree with absolutely everthing you just stated. I don't think it is yet time to go to war, though.

Mtnrgr- I agree with absolutely everthing you just stated. I don't think it is yet time to go to war, though.

You are right, Chocalate, the right wing propaganda machine is very successful and we do seem to forget our history! Most Americans believe that Iraqi's were among the 9/11 hijackers (there were none) and that Saddam had something to do with the 9/11 attacks (I don't even think Bush's people have said that he did). It is amazing that people like Cracked, GregW, Cavey, and Muffy think that peace marches usually turn violent when, as we have seen, nobody here can think if a single incident where this has happened since 1968!!!

That suggests to me that it would be just as easy to park at the bottom and walk. Putting on chains and risking getting stuck, even briefly, isn't worth it to avoid walking for 20 minutes. Of course you might not have known that in advance, but what I'm suggesting is that Eight Mile road is not really very long and I usually find the use of a snowmobile or 4x4 more trouble than it is worth.

So Greg - Have you given up arguing that peace marches usually turn violent? Are you now arguing that for someone to oppose a war that will kill lots of Iraqi's and destroy large parts of the country shows that they obviously don't care about the Iraqi people? Why don't you try an argument that you might actually win?

That's what I thought you were referring to, Muffy. But don't confuse a peace march with an environmental protest or political rally that is attended largely by ardent fanatics. In Seattle, Saturday's peace march will be attended by a wide spectrum of people and I bet, for instance, that most Seattle churches will have part of their congregation represented there. I don't know the "agenda" but I bet Congressional representatives and other dignitaries will be giving speeches. Lots of people will be there with their kids.

Muffy- Did any of these "riots" follow from a peace march or antiwar demonstration?

Muffy, I don't have kids but I have been to a lot of peace demonstrations. Since the Vietnam war era, I don't believe a single person has been arrested, nor has there been any violence, at any of the events I have attended (I didn't go to WTO). If you believe that war is a bad idea, the speeches are usually inspiring and in my experience these events have mostly been very enjoyable. I wouldn't hesitate to bring my kids, if I had any.