mattp

Nope. The point I got was that the birds get used to "background" conditions and a change in those conditions really freaks them out.

Bill, I have not read all of this thread so I may have missed where this was discussed but I once heard a presentation from a biologist who was addressing that Fremont Bridge pair, and he explained how the birds were fine with thousands of cars going by, very close, but completely freaked out when a film crew of some kind set up near, but not even in sight of and maybe not even closer to, their nest. I don't remember the details, but it was a compelling tale. The take away I got from that lecture was that these birds are cool, they deserve protection, and that the measures needed to protect them are not necessarily intuitive. I bet you could find out about this with a minimal amount of research. I think the guy was from Audubon, and based in Portland.

It was a little wet at Index yesterday. The photographer from the Everett Herald who wanted to take pictures of climbers actually rock climbing got skunked but the rest of us managed to have a good time. Great show from Colin and the hosts at Wave Trek were great!

Think sun, if you want to climb. For dinner we'll be in the raft shop.

But he's right, j_b. State workers all live the high life and they are paid more than they are worth and have all these lavish benefits and such. That is why government employment has always been known as the target employment for anybody with the means. Oh yes, and government sucks. He's right, too, that the "gov" should not do anything that can't be done by private business. I mean, hell, we could have private police and fire departments, couldn't we? The market would assure that all who are deserving would get the services they need. The latte sipping do-nothing Orca crowd might actually have to pay for protection. Shame.

I didn't notice this before. Nice!

Rain plan is in effect. http://www.washingtonclimbers.org/IndexEvent/

I took a complete beginner up Mt. Cook about 20 years ago. Did I say it? This guy was a complete beginner. He'd been trekking in Nepal, which is where I had met him, but he had never climbed any alpine peak and out of some kind of lunacy I said I'd climb Mt. Cook with him. (I wanted to climb Mt. Cook and worried that I might not have a partner for such a venture if I just showed up there. As it turned out, I was wrong, and I actually met a qualified partner for a more difficult route that we climbed a few days later.) My beginner did very well and we made the summit and got back down safely and in fairly good time but I realized that even though I had prior guiding experience and the climb was well within my own level of mastery I had absolutely no business doing such a thing. I had no prior knowledge of the range and although this would not have changed much of what I actually did on that climb it would have made a world of difference in how I was prepared for it. Right in front of us on the Summit Rocks was a New-Zealand-based guide and his German client, and I gotta say: my "client" got to the summit and back (for "free") but the guide's client got the better package. I can't remember but the guide may have been named "Bruce." Bruce was very charming, knowledgeable, and fun to be around. And he knew the mountain. I'd recommend the local guide. I'm sure you know this, runnerwannabe, but I'd also say that you should expect to actually get way less than 1/2 of your itinerary done in the time period you describe. I don't mean to be discouraging in any way: the Alps are very cool. But the typical storm period is something like one every three days and climbing there is not at all a sure bet.

Yup. If the weather is less than stellar we'll be in the old Index Tavern {Wave Trek) and the owner there said some guy named Olyclimber does a hell of a version of New York New York. The rest of us will be celebrating climbing. [img:center]http://www.washingtonclimbers.org/Misc/hist.jpg[/img]

Fairweather: Didn't you argue that I was being irresponsible, taking a young nephew to protest the Iraq war on the eve of our invasion? Four or five years later you acknowledged that the invasion was probably based on false pretenses after you saw it on TV, and now are you are complaining about somebody marching with "commies?" Seriously.

It's looking like we'll have some door prizes and the good folks from cc.com are going to sing karaoke. More information here: WCC Site

Those individuals include more than one cc.com sprayer. Index is the product of a big time community effort!

Thanks, Mr. Four. Others who may be too shy to claim credit did a lot of the real work on this thing. And the support we received from the local climbing community was, seriously, overwhelming. Come join us on the 19th, and while you are at it visit the crag for some climbing supervised by guides. I'm trying to contact the professor for an explanation of the research taking place in the tunnel, and we'll think of some more fun to be had as the time approaches. Free barbeque and a slideshow by cc.com's own Colin Haley is already in the works (cc.com own's him, right?). Index has been a hotbed of activity for 50 years and we're looking forward to another 50 (maybe longer for some of you young'uns). Bring your pictures from today or yesteryear, in JPG format, on some kind of USB device, and we can probably put them into the slideshow.

John Arum was a really great guy.

Sad news.

Nope. Trophy Wife is worth the hike and not a bad schwack as there is something like the rough trappings of a trail headed over there. It is the combined result of game animals and climbers. Just start pawing at the bush and heading that way and you will find your way along the bottom of the cliff. This place has a lot of potential. I don't blame you or anyone else for thinking it is overgrown. It is Western Washington and covered with life. But if you persist the Darrington Effect kicks in. First you find that a climb that looks mossy from below turns out to offer clean holds, but then you find that a "trail" that appears non-existent actually exists. Don't let the wild rose and anenome bushes get you down. They are beautiful and although at least the roses may have some thorns, the anenome does not and the area is highly scenic. The rock is very interesting and this place is a treat.

Any news?

Maybe we can set it up with a retinal scanner and you can only enter the can to poop there every other day or something.

There are some issues to work out here, for sure, Mr MC, but the whole point of buying the area was to maintain access and we're looking for solutions that don't involve hourly closures or seasonal ones. You are right about the concerns you note and we'll be looking for good solutions here. And, Stephan, thanks for the thanks but this was truly a team effort. Some folks who dug really deep for this thing probably won't come forward to claim credit but we had a lot of people working on this, both on our "team" and off. Over 400 individual people have donated to the fund so far, and over a dozen local businesses and clubs also kicked in. This recent bit of publicity is helping to push us toward our fund raising goal, and some kind of toilet type facility is definitely on our list of projects. Mr. MC is right that it'll be expensive. Think of the Index Fund next time you drink coffee on the way to the crag!

The Washington Climbers Coalition is planning to celebrate the 2009-2010 Index Fund campaign at Index on Sunday, September 19, 2010. With donations from over 4090 individual donors and fund raising events conducted by over a dozen local clubs and climbing-related businesses, the WCC has purchased the Lower Town Wall and we are celebrating 50 years of climbing at this, Washington's most famous crag. This event will take place in the Index town park. It will include displays and ceremony, catered barbeque, and slideshows after dark. Admission is free. Out at the Lower Town Wall, two local guide services propose to offer some professional supervision for guided climbing. Other entertainment and activities are under way.

One of the physics lab guys told me that the pendulum research had an application for submarine navigation. They could drive a nuclear sub to Japan watching the pendulum with their laser, and "map" the trip by recording how the pendulum was pulled by undersea terrain. They would make this trip while using the standard navigation equipment which would require use of signals detectable from orbit. They could then later repeat the same voyage without using the navigation equipment so no enemy satellite could detect where the sub might be going.

Take safe sex or dreamer direct and you'll avoid this spot if it where I think it is.

I don't have any idea what the "denial rate" stands for, Fairweather -- do you? (What types of claims are denied?) Meanwhile, for many years the studies have all shown that people are more satisfied with their medicare insurance program than they are with private insurance. nationaljournal.com, department of health and human services data

1. "the state should only pay public sector employees what is necessary to staff positions with people who are qualified to do their jobs..." I guess so, if you think that merely filling chairs should be the goal of any public sector hiring. Personally, I think that in many positions we don't just want people who are "qualified," but actually we want people who are good at their jobs. Maybe you agree with this and have simply assumed a different definition of the word "qualified." If so, I agree with you. When it comes to gardener or bus driver, it may well be the case that government employment pays better than private. When it comes to "professionals," certainly not even close - even accounting for these disgustingly lavish benefits you complain of. I think the idea that we pay these people more than they are worth is just plain wrong, but I'm not an economic or vocational analyst. 2. "some functions of government are more essential than others, and deserve a higher priority when it's clear that the economy isn't generating enough resources to sustain all functions of the government at their current level." OK, here too I may just agree with you. I'm not at all convinced that the State government needs to be running liquor stores or the ferry system. Health insurance, though, should absolutely NOT be run by private business. That is an abomination and any argument that the private sector is more efficient here is completely whacked. We KNOW that medicare is more efficient than Prudential and in this example you righties argue that medicare is less humane or driving the doctors out of business or .... but not that it the government run system is less efficient. Since we're going by the numbers here: 1. From what I've seen, the data supports your claim that doctors, lawyers, and other folks at the top of the professional ladder make less working for the government than they would in the private sector, even after adjusting for pay and benefits. I still claim that in my regressive fantasy where the highest priories of government - those things that only the government can do - get the highest funding, there'd be more resources available to dedicate to things like paying for judges, public defenders, etc. I still wouldn't pay more than necessary to staff the position with qualified personnel - and I think my definition is the same as yours - but even in that scenario there'd be money to pay for more of them. Ditto for MD's that want to work in public health, etc, etc, etc, etc. 2. The health insurance issue has been beaten to death, we disagree on that point, and there's a gajillion threads where where I've hashed things out with either you or folks that agree with you here. 3. One easy way to save a ton of money at every level of government would be to stop prosecuting and incarcerating sane adults for things that they do to themselves or that consenting adults to one another. Start by decriminalizing marijuana, move on to other drugs, and eventually get to full legalization of drugs, prostitution, etc. Prosecuting people, incarcerating them, seizing their property, and depriving them of their livelihood for things that they do to themselves or with other consenting adults isn't a legitimate function of government in the first place, and in the spirit of grand bargains I'd be more than happy to shift every dollar saved by ceasing all of the above to...funding the pensions and benefits of public sector workers. agreed.

OK. Now you've moved on from class warfare (government workers receive lavish benefits and every one of them or they as a class resist any possible suggestion that they should share in the economic downturn), based in incorrect fact (government agencies are not making any real compensation cuts). Thank you. But let's take your "points." 1. "the state should only pay public sector employees what is necessary to staff positions with people who are qualified to do their jobs..." I guess so, if you think that merely filling chairs should be the goal of any public sector hiring. Personally, I think that in many positions we don't just want people who are "qualified," but actually we want people who are good at their jobs. Maybe you agree with this and have simply assumed a different definition of the word "qualified." If so, I agree with you. When it comes to gardener or bus driver, it may well be the case that government employment pays better than private. When it comes to "professionals," certainly not even close - even accounting for these disgustingly lavish benefits you complain of. I think the idea that we pay these people more than they are worth is just plain wrong, but I'm not an economic or vocational analyst. 2. "some functions of government are more essential than others, and deserve a higher priority when it's clear that the economy isn't generating enough resources to sustain all functions of the government at their current level." OK, here too I may just agree with you. I'm not at all convinced that the State government needs to be running liquor stores or the ferry system. Health insurance, though, should absolutely NOT be run by private business. That is an abomination and any argument that the private sector is more efficient here is completely whacked. We KNOW that medicare is more efficient than Prudential and in this example you righties argue that medicare is less humane or driving the doctors out of business or .... but not that it the government run system is less efficient.