mattp

It could be 5.8+ but ChucK's point was that it is a good steep face climb (though short). And there are megabolts and chains at the top for the sport-type lowering set up. I don't think it is a dangerous climb if you know what you are doing, but I suppose it may be a dangerous climb for one who is relatively new to placing gear or who's belayer is going to stand away from the bottom of the climb and be all casual about it and stuff. E may be right, though, that people deck from it a lot. There is a cruxy move right near the start, and you have to place gear while hanging on your arms, and those gear placements are not 100% straight forward. Above this, there is a stretch where most people run it out on easier ground for a little bit, too. But I don't think it merits an "R" in the guidebook or anything.

The South Face of Jello Tower (80 feet high; 5.8):

Meanwhile, as they keep revising the weather forecast downward, the beer forecast for both Friday and Saturday is starting to look up. There is a 90% chance of draft beer for Friday, and 100% for Saturday night.

I don't think you are the only one with misgivings about the Access Fund, Erik, but on balance I believe they have done a lot for Washington climbing. I'd like to hear what you have to say about them or Index, though. Let's get together tomorrow night.

I don't know about the lost steps at Index, Erik, but I think they built some damn nice trails at North Bend, Frenchmen's Coulee, Tieton and Darrington. In some cases it has taken a couple of "tries" before they were able to comlete something that wore well, but they've generally done good work in my view. Why don't you show up on Sunday and show us how to do it right?

Indeed, there are lots of trails around Leavenworth that need more work than the Castle Rock trail. As I understand it, the Castle Rock trail has been selected because it is already a formalized trail in their general management plan. I believe that, before they can let us go to work on something like the Midnight Rock trail, they'd have to undertake some more extensive environmental review or something like that. The Castle Rock trail is also a popular trail that is used by climbers and non-climbers who simply walk up to the top of Castle Rock for the view, and for that reason it may be appropriate to attempt to maintain the trail to a higher standard than most of us may think is absolutely necessary. It is a bit of an eroded sandy mess in places, and if they can improve that situation, it would be great!

As part of this year's ropeup, there will be a trail project at Castle Rock on Sunday, October 12, from 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. If you want to help, bring work gloves and a helmet; wear sturdy boots. If you climb much around Leavenworth, you know that the access routes serving many of the crags suffer from erosion and other problems. Prior to Sunday's trail project, there may be some Forest Service personnel on hand to make a presentation or answer questions about their policies regarding climber's trails in the Leavenworth. This may take place at the campsite, or at the site of the trail project itself. The Access Fund was heavily involved in the creation of trails at Peshastin Pinnacles and Castle Rock, but it has been ten years since they've had a trail project in the Leavenworth area. I, for one, am very glad to spend a few hours scratching in the dirt and I take it as a positive step that the Forest Service wants to work with us on this project. If you don't mind getting a little bit dirty, please show up and lend your support.

"bring your own motor home," too. 'look forward to meeting you, Mr. Trask.

The last two years, we've been night-climbing on Friday night. Currently, NOAA shows the following: EAST SLOPES NORTHERN CASCADES- INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...LEAVENWORTH...METHOW...WINTHROP 400 AM PDT THU OCT 9 2003 FRIDAY NIGHT...MOSTLY CLEAR. LOWS IN THE LOWER 30S. Without any formal organization, it may be "bring-your-own-rope," too.

For truly moderate multipitch routes and a simple approach/descent Castle Rock has the finest and most scenic climbs in Leavenworth. Hands down.

Ropeup is going to be fun, and there will be something for everybody whether they bring their kids for an introductory session at Bruce's Boulder or they want to show off how badass they are by climbing such-and-such a route unroped in front of the assembeled masses at some roadside crag. At past rope-up's and at TimmyFest, several people have met climbers who have turned out to be ongoing regular partners, others have done their first leads or climbed their first multipitch routes, and pretty much everybody who wanted to climb something had ample opportunity to do so. I highly encourage folks to ignore the bitching on this site and come on over if they want to hook up with some other climbers and have a good time. Even Marylou.

Robert, For general glacier travel, most climbers do not use intermediate pro and for short bits of ice or technical snow such as one would be likely to encounter during a crossing of the snow-covered portions of the Coleman Glacier and many climbers would use a sitting belay (unanchored) or simply have the party members keep a tight rope without setting up any formal belay whatever when they are crossing questionnable snow bridges or climbing down into and back out of a minor crevasse. I think Jason's point was that for climbing up and down and around closely spaced crevasses and seracs such as when crossing a hundred yards of highly broken ice to reach a serac practice climb on the lower part of the Coleman, it will be very difficult to manage the rope in such a way that it will offer any real protection from the likely source of injury - a misstep and slip on a low-angle bit of ice - and that one would have to set intermediate anchors and belay if they really wanted to safeguard their "clients."

Fairweather, your caution is commendable but I think you may be overemphasizing the hazard ratings. I believe the hazard level was "moderate" when those people were buried in the backcountry near Crystal last winter, and I think it was "moderate" or less when that group of school kids was killed up at Rodger's Pass. Also, I'd add that just about any powder day has a hazard rating of at least "considerable."

Greg, Coastal Alaska might be different. However, down here, I am perfectly comfortable going to either Yosemite or Yellowstone without a gun -- and I don't feel the need to carry a gun when I go visit my sister who lives in the central district on a Saturday night. Us liberals are badass.

JoPa- As long as you are not shy about it, you should be able to hook up if you show up on Saturday morning. If you don't find somebody around the campsite, head to one of the crags where there are one-pitch climbs and ask if you can take a ride on somebody's rope (you could try this on longer routes, too, but you might have less chance of getting a yes answer).

Fairweather, you may right that I am thinking of Spring rather than Manning. I generally do not support closing logging roads such as this, and I share your disappointment over this particular decision but I should say that the I know plenty of environmental extremists (folks who have worked for the Sierra Club or who have organized Green Peace campaigns, or etc.) who do NOT favor closing wilderness areas or access to wilderness areas in this manner. The different stance with regard these issues stems from the fact that these that I know are recreational users, but not because they are any less ardent in their environmental politics. Consider, too, those who advocated establishing national parks were almost certainly viewed as "environmental extremists" in their day, and much of the wild National Forest recreational land that you enjoy were largely protected from logging, mining and grazing through the efforts of "environmental extremists" of the '70's. Environmentalism is not necessarily your enemy as a wilderness recreational user. Indeed, you only rant as you do because you are currently able to enjoy the successess of past environmentalists -- I bet you would be singing a different tune had they not been successful and all of your favorite hikes were now devoid of any big timber, as it would in fact be if the timber industry had their way.

Fairweather, I don't claim to know Manning's position on all of these issues, but I think I've seen him at public meetings arguing against restrictions on the number of hikers allowed to enter an area, so I am somewhat surprised by your statement that he wants to lock us out. What exactly did he say, and in response to exactly what issue?

I generally agree with Carl that it is more important to learn to minimize the chance of being caught in avalanches than to recover your buddy once an accident happens, but one point for backcountry skiers to remember is that there is a high correlation between good skiing terrain and snow with avalance danger. That is, the slopes that are friendly and fun for skiing are generally of a steepness (25-40 degrees) that is most likely to avalanche, and if they are open enough to ski -- even if tree skiing -- they are open enough to slide. Also, the prime powder that we all go looking for is that which has not settled after a big dump and, again, is among the most dangerous of types of snow that one could venture into. If you are out there chasing the powder and hunting down fresh ski runs, you are going to trigger avalanches and you better take it seriously! Beg, borrow, or steal -- do whatever you have to to to get a beacon (you can probably get a used one of a model that is a few years old for a lot less than a new one), and learn how to use it. Then try not to let the fact that you are carrying a beacon lull you into the stupid idea that you can get buried and your buddy is going to save you!

Since when was it a requirement that one be original around here? That would render just about all of us to the sidlines, save perhaps Teddy Ruxpin and Donna Topstep and their friends.

yessir.

I can well imagine why you wouldn't like that short, light tool with a narrow shaft and tiny pick on it on steep water ice, particularly if it was cold outside. But that is not something that you will encounter on a standard cascades alpine climb -- at least not in the summer, anyway. More likely would be a short bit of firn ice, or a blocking crevasse or something. Would that tool be wholly inadequate for a little bit of climbing on a climb where it otherwise remains in or on your pack?

What kind of climbing were you doing?

Some long term NOAA thing I just found through a link on Lowell Skoog's page said it was supposed to be wetter but not colder than average for the next couple months, then warmer but not wetter than average for the main part of the winter. There are lots of chart/maps, but the ones I looked at suggested this. That could spell a poor year for both ice climbing and backcountry skiing if it turns out that we see mountain roads blocked by early season snow (the snow line is frequently very low during November and December storms) and then a relatively warm year after that.

J_B, your study results don't surprise me, but there could be an alternate explanation other than "media bias." It could be true that people who get all their news from commercial TV stations really aren't paying all that much attention to the news anyway and, particularly in the case of those who mainly watch FOX news, they may only be looking for affirmation of what they already think is true -- that the US is the only good nation in the world (though maybe Britain or Isael occasionally do something right) and Mr. Bush is doing great things for us.

That looks like a decent tool, Lammy. The pick looks like it sticks out far enough it might even work in neve without swapping it for an alpine pick, and weight is generally a good thing when you actually are going to use the thing. How short is the "short version?"