mattp

Your argument is flawed. In one sense you imply it is ok to condone threats in a pm. In the other sense you imply that antogonizing after such a threat is even better or just the same. What the hell are you talking about? I did not ever say I condoned somebody's threatening other people in an attempt to keep one's project secret, nor did I say it was "the same" to antagonze the guy afterward. It sounds to me like the unnamed guy was out of line, but the bottom line here is that I really don't know what he said to Dru and I don't know what motivated him to say whatever he did say. It's Dru's call whether he wants to "out" somebody's projects or their tactics. As to the liquor, I would have to agree that tequila and gatorade is not the way to go. If Alpine K could scan in the booze list for the Slesse climb, we could see if those guys showed better taste in their choice of mixers....

But Cavey, Mr. Beckey pulls that kind of stuff all the time. Well, maybe not the threatening part. You're right. The un-named guy is a complete ass and Dru should go out of his way to antagonize the un-named guy whether he wants to or not. And what kind of liquor does this unnamed guy intend to take to Mox? We have a right to know.

Absolutely, Bunglehead. What I am saying, though, is that you don't have to know how to equalize anchors and make a (whatever that is) SRENE anchor to set a safe belay on a popular moderate free climb at any crag that I know of. Popular moderate multipitch climbs pretty much all have roomy belay ledges in safe locations with easy-to-place pro right there (and, if not, at least one bolt or tree or something -- usually two). In fact, the inexperienced anchor builder would likely place theirself and their partner in much greater danger trying to set a top-rope at some single-pitch choss heap like Vantage than they would setting a belay anchor on a 5.6 classic at Smith. Similarly, in terms of anchor-building only, they'd probably be in greater danger belaying their buddy on some 4th class summit pinncacle atop one of the Oregon volcano's or something.

I disagree here, Mr. B. Everybody has their own style, and if one guy wants to be secretive about their projects, that is their business. There is a long history of rivalries and secret projects in this sport, and lots of people don't think that is pathetic. If it is not a game that you wish to play, I don't see why you'd want to go on a campaign against other people's fun. I would agree that it is, at best, obnoxious to threaten others who are not willing to protect their secrets. The guy should have kept their mouth shut in the first place (if it was their big mouth that brought the subject to light) or (if it wasn't) they should just accept the reality that there are others out there looking for the same kinds of climbs. But like I said, Dru can decide whether the guy's actions dictate that he goes against that person's wishes, and only part of that answer has to do with the fact that the guy threatened him or was otherwise obnoxious in some manner.

No way. Those guys took beer and alcohol and stuff?? If he really wanted beta, Dru should have asked: what kind of liquor do you need for the 14th pitch? The 15th?

Harry, I don't think you have to worry so much about offending the name of the great Fred Beckey. You've drawn minor flame, but nothing like the full wrath of the Caveman, and we've managed to keep a good discussion alive.

Yes, we've seen enough of that kind of thing to know that what you say is true. I would be surprised to see a moderator delete a thread for that reason, though. If so, they'd deserve to have you "out" their secret project but I guess you'd have to decide if it is so important to you that you want to start into that kind of personal struggle with somebody.

Too bad, because your inquiry might better have belonged in the N. Cascades forum, and I doubt that I would have bothered to delete it and it might have gone on to become the BEST THREAD EVER, even if I DID think it looked like something more appropriate for a private email.

Do you believe in the Area 51 conspiracy, too?

Dru, I agree that your inquiry might have lead to an interesting thread. It was posted in a manner that looked like a private email (the title was "question for Jim Nelson" and you asked a question that appeared to be directed solely at him), and a certain moderator mistook it for such. I'm sorry you put so much thought into something that was removed, but I don't think any real harm was done.

Do you need his email address? We've been talking about it in the super secret moderator's forum, and some have pointed out that yours could have been an interesting thread but you certainly have nothing to whine about along the lines of being unable to ask for beta. I'll tell you that I didn't delete it but I did kind of wonder if yours was a question that might have been more efficiently addressed in an email. Get over it, then go out and climb it, then come back to spray about it.

Those guys were having a bad day. But I fear that had the leader fallen near the top of the first pitch he probably would have died, too (though perhaps not his partner). Your tale would seem to support, or at least I don't think it is a rebuttal of, my thesis: if you are competent to place pro, it is not all that hard to construct an adequate belay anchor -- on pretty much any popular moderate climb around.

Lots of people worry about the construction of an anchor more than their placement of pro in the middle of a pitch, but I don't quite understand the concern. If you can place gear that you'd even remotely want to fall on, you can certainly place three pieces and tie yourself to all three of them when you get to the belay. If you don't equalize the anchor the best way or if you make a mess out of it when it could have been set up more cleanly, there will be no harm done. On the other hand, if you can't place pro adequately to catch a fall and you take a whipper, you might get hurt bad. It is hard for me to picture a scenario where one who can place gear for pro could not set an adequate anchor at a belay on any of the popular beginner's climbs that I know of.

I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing for a guidebook author to try to change some names of features in their book. In the Enchantments, I believe that Fred once adopted a few of the names proposed by Peg and Bill Stark even though the local District Ranger favored more institutional names like "Inspiration Lake" and such. There are enough "inspiration" lakes, points and peaks around, in my book, so some fantasy mythology naming scheme as proposed by the Starks (Gnome Tarn, Troll Sink, Naiad Lake, Sprite, Brynhild Lake, Lake Freya, Valhalla Cirque ...) is just fine by me. If Dru goes out and pulls down something really rad on some E. Peak of Mount Whatsit and he wants to add a Spraylord Spire to the next edition of the CAG, who around here would complain?

Indeed. He showed up.

The snow level has been below that lake since Friday, and it was a little wet over there this weekend. I'd expect at least SOME snow. Probably not much, though, and you might still find bare ground under some of the trees.

I would have even listened to your W stump speech. Sorry I missed it.

Actually, Veggie, he didn't need to be banned in the first place. He got plenty of warning and then he just kept playing chicken with the moderators. I didn't ban him and I'm not the one to turn him back on again, but I can tell you that I believe he'd be welcome to come back as Dwayner if he really wanted to. It might take a minor grovel on his part but, were he to come back, he'd be welcome to come back and rant and rave against bolting (he'd likely get shut down again if he resumed the same old tactics). In actual fact, however, I talked with Dwayner quite extensively about all of this and I am pretty much convinced that he doesn't really want to come back - at least not yet. For his own reasons, he is more interested in being the "poor me" victim of unrestrained moderators than in spreading his message. Meanwhile, maybe you can take up the mantle and tell us everything that is wrong with the modern sport climbing world. Though you raise what on the surface might appear to be a valid concern, I don't think Dwayner would have a legitimate complaint that someone might mock him. Anybody who has spent so many posts on this board engaged in ridicule and taunting just doesn't have much right to complain if they become the subject of someone else's sense of humor. Further, he doesn't post under his real name, and he frequently maintains that his on-line character "Dwayner" is a fictitional character anyway. Sorry.

Exactly what IS the point, Veggie? Fill us in.

Like I said, you ARE shy, falsely identifying yourself and revealing a fake bedroom. They have clinics for that, you know. Oh wait, there's this online clinic where your records reveal that you have been making progress. You made big progress by showing up at ropeup. (I don't think you would have had to take a big risk to have a short conversation with me about our respective roles on cc.com but, whatever, dude -- you made it pretty clear that you didn't want to have that conversation. I'll see you 'round.)

You'll never know what you missed.

Iain - why do you feel the need to post garbage that you don't want to be associated with? With a modicum of creativity and minimal effort you can post hilarious stuff that you are proud of.

Had you simply wanted to test for gullibility, you would have revealed yourself after the first day, me thinks. I spoke to several who were disappointed. You can rectify your sins at the next ropeup or other cc.com event and you might find that some of the uncool people are OK.

You might have had more people introduce themselves to you, Dru, had you been willing to introduce yourself. What was up with the the "I'm not THAT Dru" ? Were you embarassed to take credit for your spray-lord status or something?

Josh, this has been a pretty good thread. Probably more than most others on this board, it may even be worth a go-back-and-read. And I'd say that Harry's contributions here have been very interesting. If he is in some kind of personal competition with Fred or if he said something slanderous, that may be regrettable. I pretty much agree with Cavey about Fred's accomplishments, but there's been a lot of interesting stuff reported here -- stuff you won't find in Climbing Magazine -- and Mr. Majors has been a real contributor in this thread.