mattp

Ahh, but roadway construction constantly requires condemnation of private property. How much land was taken by the government when they built I-5 through Seattle -- even though they already had a perfectly good highway 99? Sure, along I-5 much of the dedicated bus lane construction is taking place in what was previously the median so the current construction certainly has not required as much condemnation as the creation of a whole new right-of-way but, at the root of it, are you saying that we should consider no new rights of way? Or that they should be a last resort? Or we should compensate the property owner above market rate? Or what? (As a distraction, let me mention something that a friend pointed out to me recently regarding the bike paths we all think are so great: nobody is talking about this, but might the Burke Gilman trail and similar old rail lines actually better serve the general population if they were replaced with light rail? )

Mr. Pi, What led you to this choice? I'm wondering about cameras myself, and the small pocket-size and (maybe) a good lens sound good. How about Low light?

Right on, Doxey! That's called "stepping up to the plate."

As far as I have understood, every real effort at "public transportation" everywhere has invoved some "taking" of private property and this has included, often, "fucking over the little guy." Yes, our Constitution provides that we give "fair" compensation, but that is not always what the little guy thinks if fair – particularly in retrospect. And this question is the same for the light rail project that IS under way. Private property has been condemned for the light rail, too, and it will not be accomplished without heavy impact on many many property owners along the route. I bet some "little guy" was screwed when they built the London tube, the Paris metro, the New York subway, or any other large scale public transportation project ever built. The Monorail, I think, has been subject to some weird politics. Is it inherently a worse concept than surface-level light rail? I don’t really think so but there are arguments either way. However, there have been strong interests who have been against the monorail from the beginning. And I wonder why. Have they screwed up the project? It seems so. But the voters have THREE TIMES voted yes. And now the Mayor says he is going to weigh in against it, but he doesn’t want to make the call without a FOURTH vote. And then, they tell us, the City Council and perhaps the Mayor will likely kill the project anyway. Why would we vote a FOURTH time?

If you DO bring your dog, please clean up after the little darling. Last time there were quite a few dog logs left around the campsite, and I don't know if anybody found them in the dark but I'd be quite surprised if they didn't.

Isn't that a song by Rage Against the Machine?

Real ice climbs are in short supply in the Cascades, until winter arrives anyway (which may happen as early as another month or so up high), but the North Ridge of Baker offers a good and relatively easy ice climb. At this time of the year, the busted up glacier approach will be quite challenging and may involve some technical climbing in and out of crevasses but I bet never a Fall passes without somebody doing it even though others have declared it "impassable."

You may have a point, robo, but only to a point. It is the rangers' JOB to take care of the park. They can't have everyone who wants to play Lewis and Clark head out and hack at the bush with a machete. Similarly, they should not let reports like this one - even if partly made in jest - appear in a widely read public forum without comment.

Yup, I miss that place too. Not the scree fields you have to descend to get from the standard route to a vantage point below the west ridge, though - that is some of the worst garbage I have ever seen. In places, talus and dirt overlie eroded soft-rock "slabs" of crap ... I once took a ride on a twelve foot lava sled of death there. There is a really beautiful basin below the NE side of the peak. Belnap Crater is cool and has some neat lava tubes very near the top. The lava fields nearby are a great place to torture yourself with a cross country excursion...

Time for another recap: We've got the group campsite at Leavenworth's Eightmile Campground reserved Friday September 30th and Saturday October 1. Friday night, trickle in and hang around the campfire. Climb on Saturday, expect something resembling a party Saturday night, climb on Sunday, go home. In the past, folks have set up and supervised some top-ropes for novice climbers while others have paired up at the campsite to go climbing; still others have spent the weekend just hanging out in the canyon. Thus far, I have not heard of any specific plans along these lines for this year. Oly has talked about putting on some kind of a slideshow on Sat. and requested pictures of foreign climbing trips. He and Minx are going to sing Karaoke and dance for us. Bring something to share and make it fun for all. A monster cook stove and super duper coffee setup would be popular. Maybe a grill? Firewood? Canopy tents can be a plus if it rains. Camp lanterns are nice at night. Folding chairs are a plus. Somebody needs to get 100 sausages and stuff them in a pinata so we can whack it with a big stick. There has been some talk of a tee shirt design contest. Where's your entry? [edit: sorry to repeat some of what Oly just said. I don't think I contradicted him but simply added in the bits he forgot like about the karaoke and dancing show.]

What's wrong with that, Choada? Are you jealous maybe? Sure, Erik went out and got himself some attention but I think it is pretty cool for there to be a big newspaper article portraying mountain climbing as an exciting and worthy endeavor rather than an irresponsible drain upon society and theirs was a worthy climb. Way to go, guys.

For the first time, I noticed that if I hold my mouse over the "go to cc.com NOW" button permanently installed in my browser, it says "F*&k you wanker."

We almost decided to crowd you, Mr. Cash, because we saw some drippage on the wall when we looked up before starting the hike up to Jacobs Ladder. However, I figured it would turn out OK and it did. Pope, I think that pitch is some kind of .11. Your mileage may vary.

The seven day forecast calls for a drier trend over the next week. Lets hope it continues. Here's a shot from two or three years ago at ropeup:

My brother from the flatlands picked a rather rainy weekend to visit Seattle for some climbing. However, we managed to climb most of Jacobs Ladder today before we had to rap off and head for SeaTac. You might be surprised what you can do in Darrington on a marginal forecast. Pitch 4 of Jacobs Ladder:

Or up. My only experience with this was, many years ago when I helped guide several groups of climbers up Rainier one summmer, and some of them who we left behind this way felt better after they sat still for an hour and started crawling up the mountain on their own.

On overhanging terrain, you pretty much have to be hanging from aid pieces in order to place a bolt on lead (maybe some guy could stand at a kneebar rest and drill a hole). I haven't tried it on overhanging rock, but I have placed a bolt while hanging from a hook on rock that was less than vertical and you know what? The bolt ended up next to a nice hook placement but not exactly where subsequent free climbers might want it. My guess is most of those routes at WW1 at Little Si were not bolted on lead and are the better for that fact. Some of the bolts may still have ended up in poor locations, but (hopefully) anybody who is engaged in this activity takes time to think about what they are doing and does the best they can.

You're right, Geek. Somebody asks: So how do you experienced folks go about doing FA's? Specificially, I'm asking more about sport climbs ... and one guy says "I've never done it but there are lots of different ways to do it while the next poster assumes it is a troll, and the predictable cc.com dogpack follows with a whole slew of posts directly or tangentially suggesting that sport climbers suck or that trad climbing is so much better. They're right of course: sportclimbers are a bunch of total losers and they don't even deserve to kiss the feet of real climbers, but that's not the point. Those poor losers deserve some forum space, too, and the guy (AR) asked what I presume to have been a sincere question.

Yes, cc.com is not the "journal of record" for climbing and many - including your mythical top notch climbers who have passed through the State - do not read it. But if someone reports something that sounds significant people who do read it will think to themselves "didn't I hear that my buddy Peter Puget was exploring up there some years back?" I think you'll get broader circulation that way than the bare inquiry.

A climber who posts here somewhat regularly once told me that sometimes the best method may be to put up a "straw man" and wait for someone to knock it down. If you want to know whether someone may have climbed Supercrack you may not get an answer if you simply ask the question, but you'll likely get a correction if you report a first ascent. Someone who did it 20 years ago when it was stylish not to report all of our ascents may have a hard time resisting offering the correction.

In the one or two posts that actually sought to answer his question, I think he's gotten a decent answer. He's gotten some information that he didn't ask for, too, there is nothing necessarily wrong with a bit of ethical admonishment leaking into a "how to" discussion. In my view, it would be a mistake to discourage all such "how to" discussion - as some have tried to do in the past (I'm not necessarily talking about cc.com, but remembering how, when I wanted such information many years ago, it was not available anywhere). If somebody IS going to take it upon themself to install bolts I'd rather have them be able to get information about the proper harware and methods for planning and undertaking their project than not to have access to that information because there is a considerable amount of complexity to it and the damn things are in fact quite permanent and others will come along and clip into them assuming they are not only "strong" but in a "safe" location and on a "sensible" route.

Dave Schuldt and Michael and two guys from the pool table were also there.

If you can find a way to offer such newbies helpful advice without pissing them off or being perceived as condescending, you might be able to help them out quite a bit. However, I wonder if the situation you described was as dangerous as you seem to suggest: three slings anchored around trees and rocks, joining together at a single locking ‘biner sounds pretty good to me and I often shake my head in wonder at the complicated John Long SRENE setups when the anchors are trees and bolts and whatever at some 30 foot top-rope crag. I learned to climb when I was 13, and my buddy and I read that same pamphlet-type Royal Robbins book Alex refers to and headed to the nearest crag. After we accumulated a vast reservoior of experience, at age 14, we headed to the Tetons and had big adventure on climbs that amount to little more than a scramble. Professional instruction is good, but it is not the only way to learn.

I would agree as to relatively small personal property claims like that we are discussing. However, when it comes to payment of larger sums - like properly fixing your car or paying for ongoing rehab or time lost from work or whatever, I'd say they generally deserve that evil reputations.

Around Seattle, at least, most crags seem to me more often than not to be appropriately fixed with rap anchors: At Little Si, the DNR asked climbers NOT to trample the cliff top and nearly all climbs have rap anchors eliminating the need to top out; At Exit 38, I have not been to all the crags there but I've only seen a couple of routes that have reasonable walk off options, so nearly everything has a rap chain; At Mount Erie, on those crags where walk offs are reasonable, they and fairly standard last I checked; At Index, there is a combination of setups, nearly all established with some thought behind them; At Leavenworth, there is a combination so that (for example) there are no rap routes at Castle Rock, where a good walk-off exists, ditto at Icicle Buttress or Snow Creek Wall (though here there has been an ongoing disagreement about the latter because many climbers feel the walk off is both tedious and dangerous), but at other crags such as on the sandy slopes of Icicle Creek Canyon, where walking off would add to eroded messes, there are rap chains; At Darrington, walking off is pretty much not an option. Rappel anchors are in place; At Vantage, it is a mix but I believe that the DNR has asked for climbers to minimize trampling at the cliff top; At Tieton, those with decent walk-offs are largely walk-offs. --- None of thse areas are managed or maintained exactly as I would have them if I owned them, and at all there are some examples of "unnecessary" rappel anchors. There may be a growing trend toward more of them, but in general it appears to me that the climbers involved have shown some thought about what they are doing.