mattp

Catbird on Big Tree:

duroxmaine on Cornucopia:

Here's AlpinK on Jacob's Ladder:

I'm not following you here. I see your post is entered in response to the statement about making routes safe for the masses, but are you saying that every butcher that ever owned a hatchet, hammer and a drill ought go wail away on our crags with no regard for what anybody else might think? Starting as early as 1948, climbers in Washington took it upon themselves to put up new rotues, "develop" crags and undertake trail projects, cleanups and other "service projects" with an eye toward future visitors. Overall, I think we've benefitted from that.

DTown wasn't quite as sparsely attended as you portray, Catbird. I climbed with AlpineK on Saturday, and Dirty Leaf camped with us Friday night after climbing Dreamer with JSHanster on Friday. There were three parties on Blueberry Hill on Saturday, two teams on Dreamer yesterday, and two "other guys" were climbing at Three O'Clock Rock while we were there. Maybe they didn't know the secret handshake but I think they were out there appreciating Darrington.

Its looking good for some DTown climbing this weekend: SATURDAY...SUNNY. FREEZING LEVEL 15000 FEET. AFTERNOON PASS TEMPERATURES IN THE UPPER 70S. WIND IN THE PASSES LIGHT. SATURDAY NIGHT...CLEAR. FREEZING LEVEL 14000 FEET. WIND IN THE PASSES LIGHT. SUNDAY...SUNNY. FREEZING LEVEL 14000 FEET. AFTERNOON PASS TEMPERATURES IN THE UPPER 60S TO MID 70S. WEST WIND IN THE PASSES AROUND 10 MPH.

MattM, I believe the idea that bolts could take the adventure out of climbing was espoused by Messner in the 1970's, and there is a long-forgotten Chouinard article on that subject from 1961. Some of what you say is true -- not all of the run out "classics" were intended to be scary as a statement of values and many who participate in these arguments distort things or may not even know what they are talking about in the first place, but the argument about how modern climbers are using too many bolts out of cowardice is not new.

I agree that Snake Dike is "safe" as is (or as it was when I climbed it). I thought Flash was implying that it may have been retro'd to add the bolts at 75 feet. If so, I think that was probably a good idea -- certainly few have objected that the route is OVERbolted. There has never been any case of the FA being sued or even much blamed for subsequent accidents as far as I know, but that doesn't mean that we don't hold them in some measure responsible for considering the safety of those who follows. For example, if somebody consinstently puts up death-routes, even more so if they repeatedly establish death-routes below their level of competence just to make some kind of statement, most of us will frown upon that. Similarly, if the guy puts a bolt where it does not protect the crux move or takes you out of the way, most of us will complain that the route was badly bolted. As long as we maintain what we call the "first ascent principal, where the FA has some say in subsequent modificaion of their route, I think they have some responsibility to think about others who will follow.

Flash - what is the "history" of Snakedike that you refer to? Has it not remained with a bolt every 75 feet whether you need it or not?

Earlier this year, the Forest Service closed the road to the Darrington climbing area, and we had a phone and letter campaign teling them how important it was to us. They reopened the road. Come on out and enjoy it. Several of us will be out there this weekend, and it looks like there will be opportunities to hook up with some of your fellow cc.com sprayers and explore the area. I plan to camp on the Blueberry Hill road Friday and Saturday nights. I'll have a White Subaru wagon or a red Toyota Corolla unless somebody gives me a ride. I have a partner for Saturday, and tentative one for Sunday, but I think we can probably mix and match. Post here or send a p.m.

OK Everyone. It official (well not quite). If those guys do their job, we'll have the campsite. Dont fret, though because if not there are plenty more. What should be the secret handshake that you gotta know in order to hook up with an official partner?

Somebody sign up with Dirtyleaf. He's been to DTown before and he knows the place .. you'll have a good day. Plus, you can show up early tomorrow morning and reserve the campsite for us.

I'm planning on camping along the Blueberry road and heading out from there. I've got a partner for Jacobs Ladder on Saturday and had a tentative one for Dreamer on Sunday, but there's plenty else of interest up there. Let's see who responds by tomorrow and make some kind of game plan.

At least a couple of folks sound like they will be looking for partners on Sunday. We ought to be able to find something for everyone to do.

I recently went shopping for rock shoes, and checked several shops around Seattle. At other shops, they said "based on what you are describing, you want these" - and they had me try on a pair of shoes. At least two of them had limited selection and sizes available, too. At Second Ascent they had all of the shoes I'd looked at elsewhere and they also had some others. The salesperson said "I think you'd like these, but John - what do you think, oh - John says you might like these other ones. And we have these and these you might like to try on too." I tried on about five different shoes and they had them is my size range and I bought one.

OK. Now we're getting somewhere. The Queen, Knotzen, sunyata reply on this thread and I'm getting some private messages as well. It could be a good time....

Its still looking good" FRIDAY NIGHT...CLEAR. FREEZING LEVEL 15000 FEET. WIND IN THE PASSES LIGHT. SATURDAY...SUNNY. FREEZING LEVEL 15000 FEET. AFTERNOON PASS TEMPERATURES IN THE LOWER TO MID 70S. WIND IN THE PASSES LIGHT. SATURDAY NIGHT...MOSTLY CLEAR. FREEZING LEVEL 14000 FEET. SUNDAY...SUNNY. FREEZING LEVEL 13000 FEET. SUNDAY NIGHT...CLEAR. FREEZING LEVEL 12000 FEE Any more takers?

Forrest and Trog mention a problem with the hood of the mummy lying over your face if the bags don't have zippers on opposite sides and you zip them together. I have never found this to be a problem whatsoever. Tuck it under your chin, and put a hat on if your head gets cold, and you're all set.

Silent Running's original crux pitch:

The weekend forecast is looking pretty good for DTown: FRIDAY NIGHT THROUGH SATURDAY NIGHT...CLEAR. FREEZING LEVEL 14000 FEET. AFTERNOON PASS TEMPERATURES IN THE UPPER 60S TO MID 70S. SUNDAY AND SUNDAY NIGHT...PARTLY CLOUDY. FREEZING LEVEL 13000 FEET. web page

This one, on the left, has more visible rock than the others.

The climbs at Darrington are mostly 4-10 pitches on low angled granite. It is definitely "subalpine" but the overall experience is more like alpine rock climbing than typical crag climbs. The area is remote and beautiful. It tends toward slab climbing but there is face climbing and the occasional crack as well, often with long runouts on easier sections of any given climb but well-protected at the crux's. Descents are via rappel, and two ropes are generally needed. 5.5 to 5.12. We waged a successful campaign to have the road reopened after it was temporarily closed this past Spring, and I think it'd be great for more people to get out there and explore this remarkable climbing area. My guess is that we can assemble a couple of interested climbers here.

For anything lager than a day pack, I've always preferred packs that provided some access to the bottom. I would find a pack without a side or middle height zipper to be a nuisance.

SnowByrd sent me a message asking if I might queery whether there was any interest in such a thing. In the past I know that lots of folks have had a good time taking their kids camping in Leavenworth and climbing easy roadside stuff as a group from cc.com. What do you say?