mattp

ChucK, you too seem to think I was suggesting that maybe a situation on colchuck glacier should be delt with the same way as the same situation at the summit of Everest. Believe me, I was not. I know three guys who were climbing at around 25,000 feet and encountered a missing climber (well, two of them did). The first guy saw the missing climber slide by him, and observed that the faller did not appear to be self arresting. He concluded to himself "the guy is obviously already dead; there is nothing I can do." He kept on climbing. The second in line came by and the falling climber was now stopped, and sitting up in the snow. This second in line was a doctor. He poked the "dead guy" in the chest with his ice axe, got no response, and concluded "the guy is obviously already dead; there is nothing I can do." He is a doctor but did not check vital signs. He continued on. The third guy came along and the victim was gone, apparently having gotten up and tried once again to stagger down the mountain. All three of these guys were strong climbers, and all had expressed concern for the missing climber before they set out on their summit bid. All felt bad about it but were convinced there was nothing more they could have done.

Nature's Miracle gets rid of cat pee smell, and if it can do that I bet cigarett smoke would be a snap. You can get it at a pet shop.

Yes, Dalius, crying for help on the Colchuck Glacier is different from crying for help at 28k. That was really my point: we have all thought about these issues at some level, even if we have not been to the top of Everest. Even if not so directly applicable to our daily experience, this is surely as interesting a topic as whether or not there should be a belay bolt on some beginners climb or whatever... Kitergirl had an idea that maybe it could be entertaining or perhaps even interesting to discuss this.

You've got some deserving routes on your list, Mike. I'm not kidding. However, maybe there are some themes you've overlooked: How about "50 biggest chest beats on cc.com" or "100 gaper routes that nobody will admit climbing," or maybe "My Favorite Sheep-Infested Climbs?" You could rake in a ton if you hit that special niche.

I'm with Clyde. I don't think any creek crossing will be your real problem. The weather is predicted to be somewhat unsatable, though not terrible. If it remains relatively cool, as predicted, and if the snowpack actually sets up, you may do OK. I hope you are prepared to navigate in poor visibility.

I'm not really sure what your problem is, guys. Every weekend we tie onto the rope with the idea that our partner is bound to save us and I bet everyone here would say it is lame - no criminal - for someone to walk by us when we were crying for help on, say, the Colchuck Glacier. But Kitergal is lame for asking what we think about this?

Carolyn, how ya doin? Why don't you fly out here for our July 4 cc.com YellowJacketTower.COM event? Oh, sorry. I meant YellowJacketTower.ORG. We don't want any advertising on our event. We can analyze the climb and pontificate about how only gapers could ever possibly get hurt there. We can be superior to everybody else in the entire canyon, and we can even proclaim our absolute freedom from THE MAN. For sure, we won't place any bolts and probably little or any pro (that is for pussies), and with luck nobody will get hurt. What do you say?

I'd go for some of Will's tradeware. With some of the programs available, such as photoshop or the word processing software I use (usually word or wordperfect) I actually prefer the older programs. They seem to do everything that I want to do but in a much simpler fashion. They also require a tiny fraction of the ram and seem to crash less. I'm not so sure that progress is a good thing when it comes to basic utility software. (Of course, I liked DOS.)

For sure, the views and the relative remoteness that lie so close to Seattle are big components for me. For a sample of Washington rock climbing, I'd take them here and to Washington Pass, for starters: For skiing, I took my brother and nephews to Pemberton for similar reasons: And for mountain climbing? I might want to go a little further afield: Though, closer to home, there is a cool, easy ice climb in the middle of a moderate route on Mount Baker: All of these places have good rock or good snow or whatever, and magnificant scenery -- all in a location that isn't hard to get to but has a feeling of remoteness to it.

For bad gas and dirty kerosene, I've had good luck with the XGK. You have to take it apart and clean it a lot, but at least you can do that. I've generally had trouble with the Whisperlite, even using clean white gas.

Well well. We post the same message at the same time, KK. Question: who here ever said they supported or were not disturbed by a pardon of Marc Rich? Hell, even Congressional Democrats were upset over it. Perhaps the real idealogues here are those taking the cheap shots at the evil liberals on cc.com.

Fox: For stuff like that, it is traditional for Presidents to issue such pardons on their last couple of days in office. It would not cause or even support impeachment, it would only stink.

Thanks for posting this, Joseph.

For sure, cc.com lies somewhere along a spectrum. But what is your point, cj: do you argue that in fact it is harder to joke about cheating death or rip on the mounties on cc.com than it is to ask some newbie question or talk honestly about a Mountaineer accident? Or are you simply saying you would target a different place along that spectrum than I would?

I agree with you, Archy, but really I think you are focussing on a mirror image of the greater issue: there is much more of a problem with people on this board being unable to talk about moderate climbs or Mountaineer accidents than there is with people not being allowed to joke about cheating death or complain about the Mountaineers.

Considering that Lay, at least, was one of GWB's major donors, you could be right but that'd be a touchy thing to do and the powers that be may not allow it.

I am so hurt that you would say something like that. Now, do you care to speculate on the degree to which this will change American corporate or governmental practices? I'm inclined to think these are important events and the prosecutors involed deserve some strong support, but less inclined to expect that the long term impact on a corrupt system will be huge. Maybe you think the system is not corrupt?

That's great, smart guy. I'm glad we have you around to do our homework for us. Does that change anything about Oly's point or mine? Are you suggesting that corporate America or the U.S. government is going to staighten up and fly right as a result of this?

Yes, they are big fish for sure. But Oly could be right: there may be equally big fish or even bigger ones who they are NOT going to prosecute but who have done things just as bad. After all, some fairly spectacular cases have "gone down" - like remember when Martha Stewart got fried for insider trading? - yet I am pretty sure some major players continue to engage in the same conduct. I give 'em credit for at least getting these guys, though.

Gary, I don't know for sure if this is true or not but it strikes me that there is increasingly less interest in mountain climbing among younger folks these days, even more than the reduced climber numbers we are seeing at Mount Rainier or the North Cascades. I also think that younger folks are less and less inclined to join an organization.

And this...

More fun with Bush.

Last time Silent Running was mentioned on cc.com:

For sure.

I found a #4 or 4.5 camelot handy on both the first and last pitches. How was the descent. The anchors are good, you report. Isn't there a bunch of snow on the north side? Rockshoes OK there?