mattp

I think it is a spectacular traverse, and I highly recommend it. You gotta have a tolerance for vegetated rock and adventure climbing, though. It is not for everybody. You and your partner better be pretty efficient if you plan on completing the trip in a single day. When I did it, my partner and I were far from efficient but we were both in good condition and neither of us was anything like a beginner. We spent the night on some heather benches descending from the Middle Peak even starting from Lake Serene. Go fairly soon and you may still be able to find water (snow patches) on the route. You'll find more information in a search of old threads.

Everybody bring their best tie dye and we can pose for a picture to put on a get well card for Kurt. He loves tie dye.

That used to be a regular practice here, too. However, I believe the police take a dim view of this as some kind of "interference" with a police officer or "obstruction." Try that in Lynnwood some time and I bet you get pulled over.

On KUOW they were recommending knitting cell phone holders. The new potholder, I guess.

OK then, here's a map. You'll need it, as we live on a screwy street, and our house is out of order on the block. 7:00 - 11:00 or so. I'll have some salad or something, and if you wanna eat some meat bring a sausage or steak or tofu or whatever floats your boat.

Oh yes. I have a couple of barbeque grills and for those not so inclined to drink beer on a Tuesday night, we could have some ice tea with mint leaves plucked out of the garden. How yuppie is that?

By the way, my "argument" that you objected to was not that I was right and you are wrong; it was that virtually all of the information that you cited as the basis for your reevaluation had previously been published and most of it was published three or four years ago. The question is how did a few self-seving members of the administration manage to cow the military and so completely fool most of the American public when the intelligence community was saying that there was no uranium purchase, no Prague meeting between Iraq and al queda, no evidence of an ongoing nuclear program, etc. etc. (And how do they continue to blame "intelligence failure" and get away with it?) If you were reading carefully and objectively, the information was really pretty clear but it was all passed off as "liberal media bias."

If I might be so bold as to propose a pubclub hijacking, I would say that my back yard is a very nice place to enjoy the sunset and you all would be welcome to come over and sit on our back deck this evening. It'd be a garden pubclub. It's a long way from Ballard, as I live in NE Seattle over near NOAA/Sand Point/Magnuson Park, but Dave Schuldt could ride here via the Burke Gillman (two blocks away) and folks could bring their six packs instead of paying $14.00 for a pitcher. I'll post a link to directions if you folks might be so inclined.

I agree that #21 (the first one that Mr. White has posted above) looks like Yokum Ridge. If so, I'm not sure if it is from the "back" side or simply turned backwards. I don't think the sun gets far enough north to shine that way on the back side.

Fairweather, you have been calling me delusional, paranoid, full of conspiracy theories, etc. for four or five years. In virtually every political argument, and even in many discussions related to climbing, you go out of your way to insult the other guy. There are few on this entire board who have been as "shrill" as you. As I stated in my first responsive post, I was impressed that you were man enough to admit your revelation on cc.com, but where you then seek to use that revelation as a springboard to justify further personal attack, I call B.S. Show us your stuff: stick to the argument.

Isn't late afternoon the only time that Nevermind is actually NOT shaded?

That is a pretty impressive piece of firewood in the road, isn't it?

I have a hard time seeing how the fact that Bill Gates is a major philanthropist has much to do with whether or not a free market or a more regulated economy is better, or whether taxses are good or bad or whether the government wastes tax money. I have not hear Bill arguing that (and certainly not his father).

True. I also think that everyone should expect other parties NOT to do so and take appropriate precautions. In this case, I'm not sure there were any appropriate precautions, but I don't find it hard to picture such a thing as somebody skiing over your glacier rope and while I'd be yelling at the guy too I think there was probably little harm done. Inspecting the rope, can you even tell where the "damage" occurred? What does it look/feel like? Whether it is the Easton Glacier on Mount Baker, or the Outer Space route on Snow Creek Wall, chances are better than 50% that, on any given day, somebody is going to do something you think is either obnoxious or maybe even dangerous. I'm not making excuses for all the idiots in this world, but one way to minimimze that is to climb non-standard routes.

I don’t think it was smarmy, but it WAS a bit manipulative to state “OK, I was wrong - and now YOU are mean to suggest that I should have realized this three years ago.” Of course, you’ll see plenty of smarm in that N Korea thread.

Even though it doesn't necessarily look mossy, P-1 of Beetle Bailey gets a letter grade easier with a good wire brushing, though I suppose repeated brushing might actually polish in such a way as to make it harder.

On Exfoliation Dome, Jacob's Ladder and Rainman are shaded until noon. Dark Rhythm nearly so. On a hot sunny day, I'd just get up early and do one of those and plan on calling it swim time when the sun starts roasting. Dreamer, facing SE, is probably the worst of the lot for getting sun fried.

Fairweather, You've been calling me names and saying I've been smoking pot and whatever for four or five years. You gotta let me bask in a moment of glory - if only for ten minutes. I'm sure we'll be hard at it again tomorrow, OK? More smarm: Don't feel bad. Most Americans have been similarly fooled by all of this, and I'm afraid the spin and lies and fear mongering will continue. I'm seriously worried about the health of our "democracy."

The repeated visits to the CIA were definitely reported at the time. So too were claims that resources were diverted from trying to catch Bin Laden. And the fact that the meeting in Prague was denied by virtually everyone who had any real knowlege of the relevant events was pointed out almost as soon as they started talking about it. There were also reports about the special "pipeline" for "supporting" information, and the European press covered the repeated warnings from the analysists that the Uranium purchase documents were not trustworthy. Much of that other factual stuff, too, was available long ago. It was all passed off as just more politically motivated spin, and maybe only now you are seeing someone that you actually trust saying these things, but it was all there.

Fairweather, I'm impressed by your post. Before we went into Iraq I argued that we should have been talking about something along the lines of this: Saddam is a bad guy, and he is only getting worse, so we may in fact find we have to invade or take other serious action sooner or later. We never had that discussion. I believe we should have a similarly frank discussion now, based on an honest analysis of how what is happening in Iraq is likely to play out, and how this or that possible intervention on our part may actually help or hurt our prospects for long term security or even prosperity (and we should similarly be discussing the reality in any number of other dangerous parts of the world). Sadly, I don't think we'll ever see such discussion. Certainly the debates in Congress are nothing but a charade. I actually DO believe some of the "oil/Halliburton bullshit," but that is neither here nor there. I would point out, however, that nearly all of the information that you saw in that piece the other night was available in the mainstream press at least three years ago if you were really watching.

PP - Did you watch TV the other night? Do you STILL maintain I was wrong, three years ago, when I said Bush and company were lying?

Yes, but did he lie to take us into war? I'm still waiting to hear what Fairweather thought of the TV show the other night. And, in a similar vein, has anybody here read this? Vanity Fair The liberal media has some rather detailed reporting about how BushCo were told over and over again that their "facts" were untrue before they reported them as "facts" to Congress and the U.N.

Right on, Kellie.

Righit on, Gents. I have long held the opinion that might be a good climb.