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Nobody compares.

I think its diminished popularity is due to the fact that you might have to climb 10 or 15 feet between bolts, which means that you have to climb a little more honestly. Instead, one can climb at Frenchman's where very little is required. Just pull on the jug, look around for all the chalk, grab the next jug, clip the bolt. Then call "TAKE" and shake out while you pretend you're really doing something. Don't forget to bitch about motocross riders and their attack on the environment.

"Hey you! Yes, you...on the dirt bike. Don't you know you're F-ing up the soil? What? Oh...the bolts? It's OK, 'cause we're SPORT CLIMBERS! And wrecking the rocks is what we do."

Hang in there. It's all for the kids. BTW you could easily get an "emergency certification" and become a math teacher. That's how the State of Washington responds to a crisis/shortage in the math-ed labor market, instead of paying a competitive wage. Imagine getting paid for 7.5 hours/day when you're working 10-12 hours! The beautiful thing is that your job would be absolutely secure...since NOBODY wants to do it! Rudy, YOU could make the difference in the life of one student (although the other 29 don't give a flying f%&k). Public school. Too much public, not enough school.

My point is that Zen Guy is a rip-off of Inappropriate Yoga Guy. Did somebody already post this? Oh my goodness! With 6700+ posts in two years, you'd be the one to know. You should be proud.

Not terribly original. Try this. 1lBoJpx8Wn8

Still talking about dicks.

Get out of the way! I'm going to Exit 38!

Why wood? Why not vinyl?

But the bikes being discussed in this thread ARE riding in an are off-limits to bikes. It's not ABOUT whether or not it's annoying to others--it's illegal. Illegal? Oh my gosh! That never presented a problem for those who voiced support for the establishment and opposition to the removal of illegally placed bolts on Mt. Garfield. Nor did it present any moral hurdles for the large number of climbers who at least symbolically approved of the Garfield project by climbing it and posting trip reports here. Even the WCC missed (and continues to miss) their opportunity to organize an effort to erase the route, which of course would have been laughable given the activities of certain members in other wilderness areas.

Probably not the same if you really do the whole thing from the ground up, since the end result is that you did the whole thing from the ground up. Now who's going to argue that's the same thing as getting all the answers handed to you with top-rope inspection or with aid tactics like letting your rope hang through your top piece? The things I have to explain to you! When you have lived and loved like Sexy Choco has....

When you have lived and loved like RuMr has........

Bachar would have been correct to say (and maybe he did...I didn't read it) that pulling the rope after each fall made the free ascent much more difficult. Those were the rules adopted by those to whom ethics and style mattered greatly. Obviously when you abandon those rules the limits will be redefined, and harder grades will be climbed. Does that mean standards are increasing? Hard to compare when the rules are relaxed. Certainly with hang-dogging and top-rope inspection, you take the mystery out of every square inch of the climb, and most of the danger goes with it. Harder grades, diluted experience. Ain't that what sport climbing is all about? Those elements were important in traditional climbing. Maybe Bachar is correct.

The issue is treading lightly in the wilderness. If you participate in the destruction of our rock resources, then you don't have a moral leg to stand on. It's puzzling how one even hears the kid on the bike above the chorus of bolt-clippers yelling "Take!" and "Send it!" Not to mention the harmonic gurgling of the community bong against the percussive clatter of the Hilte.

I'm with Dwayner. Ethics and style matter more than the grade. Suppose the same gal climbs a route several grades lower in difficulty but without all of the aid climbing. Then I'm more impressed (but still ambivalent since climbing accomplishments are personal in nature and do nothing to impact the human condition). But seriously, 5 months? Let's call it what it is. Five months of aid climbing for one "free" ascent of one pitch. Whatever. Of course it's difficult and that anybody can cling to such nothingness is truly amazing. Impressive and inspirational? Not to me. I'm just confused about why anybody would bother.

Megamid. Ask your sister.

I've got an extra leg sewn in my lycra for such events.

It's all about the garb. When you put on wooly knickers and gaiters to hike up Mt. Si, you're alpine climbing. This became clear to me on Chimney Rock when we left our packs on the glacier and went up the wall with just a rope and about six nuts kind of early one morning. I remember wearing a T-shirt and yellow lycra tights. As we ran the rope right through six mountaineers bivied on a ledge four pitches up, one of them woke up, took a look at my goofy pants and remarked, "Buddy, this is an alpine climb."

Well, it didn't take long to find somebody who's free-soloed it. And as I've asserted, I'm sure Coco can add his name to a long list of those who have. The "meaningless little route" in question was a long-standing top-rope problem. With bolts, I suppose it remains a "meaningless little route"...now it's just ugly. And it exists on a highly visible cliff with great top-rope access, a cliff previously untainted by such garbage. Just a couple of questions. Why bother bolting this "meaningless little route"? I suggest that the result is hardly worth the effort, but that the mess created (as many view it) is something we'd be better off without. Those of you who think clipping a few bolts adds tremendous adventure to this top-rope problem....Oh my goodness! You just don't know the meaning of the word "adventure". Finally, for those who want to get the feeling of "leading" that sport climbing gives you instead of top-roping short climbs like this, try top-roping with...oh, maybe about 4-1/2 feet of slack in the rope. That should give you an equal rectal pucker.

What does it crowd? My style, that's what. We're talking about a face climb that was for decades a nice little top-rope problem, probably climbed on lead and free-soloed an uncountable number of times. It certainly doesn't need bolts, any more than the top-rope problems at Bruce's Boulder. In it's current state, anybody who climbs in the area will be once again reminded of everything that is pathetic about sport climbing and the trail of trash attendant thereto. The bolts on this climb do not respect the first ascent of the climb, the tradition of the climb, the flavor of climbing on that cliff, nor the wishes of those who prefer to keep climbing wild, adventurous and free of trash.

Jim Zorn will coach the Redskins.

In Yosemite, slip into Sunnyside around midnight or 1 a.m. Find a group that's already retired into their tents, with lights off. Throw your bag down in the corner of their site, then set your alarm for 7 a.m. Take a nap in the afternoon when it's too hot to climb. On my last trip we didn't pay once.

Funny thing is, my comments were purely an attempt to get people talking about football...in a football thread (that's how it started). I (correctly) suggested that most of the loud-mouth types on this board are even less capable of talking football than they are talking about climbing. It was a challenge...with the goal being to stimulate football talk. I think that the game was interesting, but what the Giants did was incredibly special. What we end up with is yet another cc.com thread degenerating into absolute trash with the usual a-holes leading the charge. Another funny thing...you claim I'm all washed up for "real climbing" and arbitrarily claim that mt. biking doesn't qualify. I offer to climb off the couch and show you what "Mr. Glory Dayz" is all about and you punt. Icicle Ridge sounds super, if you're still interested when it melts out. I assume you're talking about doing it on mountain bikes. And here's another challenge: I'll bet I can do your hardest boulder problem with a watermelon tied to my ass.

Here's the best I could find on youtube....would be nice to find video of a George Jones performance but oh well. Nyoy4mNnH_Q