pope

This has nothing to do with schools. I doubt this girl has spent much time in a classroom. Teachers have little control over the education of kids who don't show up for school. I used to work as a high school teacher and the dumbest kids were those who never showed up. They were the ones whose parents didn't care when you called them to find out why their kid didn't show up. Or they were the ones who were disruptive and caused other kids to have a less than a satisfactory experience. Families who don't support their children in their educational endeavors are likely to have kids that have the level of critical thinking that Miss South Carolina appears to have. You'd be suprised at how big a deal attendance is at the average school. Should teachers be penalized for the grades of students who only show up every once in awhile and don't even pretend to try when they do show up? Jason ABSOFUCKINLUTELY! If your dentist advises your children to brush and floss routinely, but you don't follow through by monitoring their brushing routines, do you think your dentist deserves a demotion and decreased salary when your kids develop tooth decay? Oprah was recently criticized for opening schools for girls in S. Africa. Critics asked, "Don't American children need your help?" She replied that U.S. children care far more about i-pods and Nike shoes than education, after which she received even more criticism. I think she's correct. And we can mostly blame an F'ed up culture that doesn't value raising responsible children.

Sport climbing = cut your balls off and enjoy Ronald McDonald Playland instead. It'll save you money on 'biners and get you closer to the MILF.

What? He plays basketball?

"That entire mother of a rock is gonna be covered in ice. And you can't see through it, to find a crack in the rock to place a piton, but you can sure as heck drop through up to your neck at any moment. Worst part is it's coming from the south. They won't even know it 'til it hits." My buddy, Tom, acting out the Eiger Sanction in Switzerland.

"A few hours of mountain climbing turn a villain and a saint into two rather equal creatures." -- Friedrich Nietzsche "Republicans is fine, If you're a multi-millionaire Democrats is fair, If all you own is what you wear Neither of 'em's REALLY right, 'Cause neithor of 'em CARE" -- Frank Zappa

Dude, we should go bag a peak. You can carry the tent, rack, ropes, stove...and maybe two gallons of water. I'll carry the down parka, topo and matches. Then I'll hike behind you with a short rope.

Use traps, not poison. If they're living in your walls and you poison them, they'll probably go back to their nest to die. Then your home will REALLY smell bad. Bate 'em with peanut butter.

Dude, you're a fighter. That's inspirational. Nothing like the lust for summits to make a man battle through rehab.

If I remember, 119 had something to do with rules regulating health care. You can probably get more information on this climb by contacting its pioneer. I'm pretty sure he still lives in Tacoma and climbs at Edgeworks. The north ridge is a nice way to summit from Cutthroat Pass and involves one pitch of 5.7 on solid rock.

Without Cruel Shoes, the Grand Wall is kind of ho-hum. Only the Split Pillar really stands out as spectacular. The best part of the Sword is the 5.8 face climbing between the crux and the belay. Then you're on a bolt trail up to another bolt trail undercling, then you're on a huge ledge which detracts from the exposure. If 5.10+/5.11- is beyond your abilities, climbing Mercy Me and the Split Pillar will allow you to sample the best of the Grand Wall. Otherwise Cruel Shoes definitely makes the Grand Wall a superb climb. Davis Holland to Lovin' Arms is a better 5.10+ climb, especially after pitch 3. Once on Lovin' Arms, the climbing is SPECTACULAR with great rock, solid gear and airy views up the Skykomish. Climb it in late September/early October when the air is crisp and Mt. Index has a dusting of snow for a little bit of preobituary Heaven. I heard second-hand that Dave Morales soloed this route. That's crazy! I've only done the Grand Wall once. Mark Pratt and I climbed via Cruel Shoes with one 45m rope and a pint of water. Five hours later, while I studied the exit at the end of the Belly Good ledge, I saw a blur of light behind me. Apparently Mark was impatient and jumped from a position behind me over the void into the trees with his flip-flops.

Another way which is kind of fun is go in by Ingalls Lake and camp at the base of the West Ridge. Get up and climb the North Ridge, then down climb the West Ridge. Nice traverse and no Long's Pass to hike over, plus no carry-over. I'd advise a water pump because you probably won't find it at the camp I'm suggesting, so you'll want to load several bottles at the lake. No bugs at camp either. Come to think of it, this is my favorite way to climb the North Ridge.

It's hard to tell the toilet from the climbing:

Reese, I'd be happy to show you some great introductory climbs. I have 20 years of experience, mostly in Washington, and I've instructed professionally. I can show you much more than good sport climbing. Shoot me a PM with contact information. I can climb any day of the week through August. Eric

I'll bet it's still up there waiting for you! Is that the climb in Squamish? Ain't that 5.9? BTW I remember in a private message you told me about soloing Orbit, when boasting about your solo accomplishments, but you never brought up soloing 5.11a climbs. This must be a recent development! Did a 12d top-rope flash, so I guess I could probably clip a rope into some quickdraws on a 13a after 3 months of pissing my life away. Not sure where you're going with your mathemagical argument. My point is that unless one is able to climb grade X in a variety of locations on unfamiliar routes and with few falls, one doesn't climb grade X.

Or did you pull out your "brass balls" and send onsight? Is this one of those activities that you have no right to comment on because you haven't done it yourself? So pope, did you go and rehearse it? jeez, what poor form. it's unfortunate we are in a public forum and your buddy dwayner will see what you've been up to, you know, rehearsal and all. pfft. Unless I hear otherwise, I'll assume you're a little out of your league on the topic of doing Brass Balls "leashless" and you probably shouldn't even start this conversation. I did it unroped after leading it several times, but there are important differences between this kind of rehearsal and what typically goes into climbing 5.13 these days. 1. In my rehearsal, I never fell, hung or aided. 2. In my rehearsal, I never left a mess behind. 3. For my performance, one could argue that rehearsal was just a little more important. There was a little bit more than a pink-point in the balance. Finally, you'll read (in this thread, I believe) that I don't have a big problem with rehearsing, if that's what people find entertaining. If it's important to you to climb the next BIG NUMBER and you've got the time and desire to rehearse the snot out of something, feel free. But Dwayner's right in suggesting that this approach to climbing is what has trivialized 5.13 and that a climber who can barely manage a 5.12a flash could probably pink-point a 5.13. Thus, large numbers of anonymous climbers are doing it (maybe even Kevbone has managed this). So, no problem with the style of hangdogging. It's not for me, but whatever. I'll just say that when you're bragging about your BIG NUMBERS, remember that you shouldn't trick yourself into thinking you can really climb that stuff. Also, make an extra effort not to leave a mess when you're done. so i guess you could say you aren't really a 5.10 soloist by your line of logic, eh? I did a couple of 5.10 climbs solo without any experience or beta, but generally I wouldn't go after something that hard w/o a rope, for several reasons. For one, I didn't climb too many grades harder than that with a rope (I rarely fell on 5.11 but wasn't going after 5.12). Another reason is variability in ratings. I once got kind of "stuck" half way up a 5.9 in the City of Rocks. It was harder than any of the 5.11 climbs I'd done (first day, first visit). After surviving that, I looked up the climb in the guide. Most of the 5.11 climbs I did that seemed easy were relatively new. The 5.9 that nearly killed me was put up in the 1970's. Anyway, most considered Bachar to be a competent 5.11 solo climber but he rarely soloed that grade without rehearsal.

Or did you pull out your "brass balls" and send onsight? Is this one of those activities that you have no right to comment on because you haven't done it yourself? So pope, did you go and rehearse it? jeez, what poor form. it's unfortunate we are in a public forum and your buddy dwayner will see what you've been up to, you know, rehearsal and all. pfft. Unless I hear otherwise, I'll assume you're a little out of your league on the topic of doing Brass Balls "leashless" and you probably shouldn't even start this conversation. I did it unroped after leading it several times, but there are important differences between this kind of rehearsal and what typically goes into climbing 5.13 these days. 1. In my rehearsal, I never fell, hung or aided. 2. In my rehearsal, I never left a mess behind. 3. For my performance, one could argue that rehearsal was just a little more important. There was a little bit more than a pink-point in the balance. Finally, you'll read (in this thread, I believe) that I don't have a big problem with rehearsing, if that's what people find entertaining. If it's important to you to climb the next BIG NUMBER and you've got the time and desire to rehearse the snot out of something, feel free. But Dwayner's right in suggesting that this approach to climbing is what has trivialized 5.13 and that a climber who can barely manage a 5.12a flash could probably pink-point a 5.13. Thus, large numbers of anonymous climbers are doing it (maybe even Kevbone has managed this). So, no problem with the style of hangdogging. It's not for me, but whatever. I'll just say that when you're bragging about your BIG NUMBERS, remember that you shouldn't trick yourself into thinking you can really climb that stuff. Also, make an extra effort not to leave a mess when you're done.

Or did you pull out your "brass balls" and send onsight? Is this one of those activities that you have no right to comment on because you haven't done it yourself? No....this is NOT one of those activities! Oh, so you free soloed Brass Balls? That's neat, maybe we CAN have this conversation.

Or did you pull out your "brass balls" and send onsight? Is this one of those activities that you have no right to comment on because you haven't done it yourself?

There is nothing "on-going" and "the bet" was childish. Here's the story which directly relates: A few years ago, there was a discussion about hang-dogging in which I described it as "siege climbing". The old school philosophy is that you climb from the bottom up, and if you fell, you were lowered to the ground and started over, or you trained on lower grades and worked your abilities higher until you were good enough to address the climb on its own terms. Hang-dogging...hanging off your gear to rest, falling repeatedly while rehearsing the moves, was considered weak free-climbing, essentially aid, and bogus. It demonstrated that you weren't ready. So let's say the climb is 5.13, and someone thrashes their way up this thing after weeks of hang-dogging and rehearsal and than pulls the rope and "red-points" it. Is this person really a 5.13 climber versus someone who has worked their abilities to the point where they can actually lead it on-site? An analogous tradition can be seen in the expedition vs. alpine tradition in mountaineering where alpine-style climbing is considered a stylistically superior means of obtaining a summit. Reinhold Messner epitomized this by advocating and demonstrating the concept of climbing the mountain by fair means, not beating/sieging it into submission. I also made the analogy on cc.com about a piano; something to the affect of: You may not be able to play the piano today but rehearse it enough and you'll be able to play a Beethoven sonata. This, by the way, does not mean that you have the same skill level of someone who has worked up their skill level to the point where new music can be set in front of them and they can play through a sonata without falling all over themselves. I made the comment that I felt that nearly any climber with the dedication could, using the present rules of sport climbing, pull off a 5.13 if they were allowed to rehearse the moves endlessly into submission. It might take them months or a year or whatever, but put up rules like that, and it opens the door to all kinds of faux-accomplishments. I picked 5.13 because a lot of folks see that as a BIG NUMBER! and it seems to be a usual number for when the on-sight leading often ends and the sieging begins. Some folks chimed in saying 5.13 wasn't such a big deal anymore....it's what 5.12 was 20 years ago or 5.11 25 years ago. They're all over the place now...Whatever, I was making a theoretical statement apparently lost on many. Then the usual cc.com taunts began, and a few of the usual and predictable blow-hards came out with frat-boy challenges to collect a bet that Dwayner couldn't possibly climb any kind of 5.13 no longer how he tried. It was utterly childish. One major moderator on this site told me that it would be impossible for me (to which I replied that I hope he doesn't spread his crappy attitude to children). The school-yard buddies delivered their usual lame clichés: "put your money where..." and my award for the most pathetic of all time: "don't cash a check your *ss can't deliver" Believe me, if I had a convenient crag nearby, the interest and inspiration, and importantly, the time (none of which I have), it would be very satisfying to engage in such a challenge myself....it's not an excuse...it's reality...(on the other hand, I don't have an inclination to respond to juvenile bets, but if I ever do, it will be on my own time and terms). Regardless, my concept still stands. Perhaps someone with an abundance of the factors that thwart me can prove me correct. Now wasn't that fascinating? Hi Dwayner. How have you been? Long time no speak. ok enough chit-chat. It's easy to say "Oh I could do that." I know, because I do it all the time. It's a confidence I have, but the time eventually comes when I step on to that which I have almost blithely dismissed, and thank goodness occasionally get my ass kicked. This is good for me! It smacks me of my arrogance! It lets me know that I need to try if I want to do something, and that nothing is given until it is actually accomplished, and also takes me to what I love about climbing: figuring stuff out. Let me re-state that: until one has climbed something quite specific, well, they haven't climbed it. Rather self-evident, yes? No amount of rationalization, equivocation, explanation, prognostication, hubris, or ventriloquism can change this fact. You should know this: before that dinosaur bone is in your hand, it isn't in your hand, and you don't know whether or not you will find it. Perhaps you have a good idea that a specific location might contain dinosaur bones and eggs and mummies and stuff, but since you haven't climbed even a 5.12, what makes you think you will find a mummy in your closet? Until you actually step out from behind your excuses and attempt that which you so arrogantly dismiss, you will be nothing but an archaeologist lost in your closet. Did you know that Andres Segovia spent most of his time practicing scales and etudes? Very simple stuff, rehearsing and rehearsing. Many artists do this. Personally I'm more pulled by the spirit of things and not just the mastery, but I admire mastery also. You, Mister Don, need to be less arrogant and climb more, instead of always complaining about the state of climbing. OMFG...so brilliant...damn... Fascinating how liberal we've become with that adjective. Guess you have to consider the readership. Anyway, a number of our more annoying participants have echoed the notion that it is not appropriate to criticize an activity unless one has participated, especially if the activity required discipline and focus. In some cases this might be good advice, but in this particular situation there is an important consideration that has been conveniently ignored within this thread. I'll provide an analogous example. Suppose a professional baseball player is in the hunt for a home-run title and he finds that the players leading the race are injecting performance enhancing drugs. He thinks this is unethical and refuses to participate, yet knows without the drugs he probably won't be competitive. Does he have a right to denounce something he feels is not only poor style but is seriously damaging the integrity of a game he loves? I think he does, but ONLY if he takes the moral high ground and refuses to particpate in doping. OK kids, you draw the parallels here. If you can't figure it out, perhaps you could PM that brilliant Sexy Mocha guy for the answers.

OK, in case you're ignorant of this fact, climbing has traditions. These traditions dictate that climbing involves not only athletic ability and skill, but also boldness, adventure and respect for the medium. Turn your back on this and you'll lose what makes climbing special, what makes climbing different than Olympic-level competition in track or volleyball or synchronized swimming. Now, if you don't value boldness and tradition, but you still think scaling walls is "neato", then I suggest you stick to gym climbing and top-roping. Thereby can you remove ALL adventure and boldness from "climbing" and concentrate on perfecting your stupid little "project". I don't have a problem with this approach per se....it's when your bastardized form of climbing requires molesting our cliffs with a grid of bolts to accomodate your poor style that I have a problem.

I'll defer to your expert opinion in this matter.

Actually, that bag was full of alpine snacks: Vienna sausage, kippered fish (in mustard sauce), sweet cherry peppers, imported yuppie cheese and Sheaf Stout. The photographer (Jon Sheriff) and I once manufactured a small number of custom chalk bags made to the specifications of elite and demanding climbers. These hand-crafted bags weren't available for Jeff Smoot's famous chalk bag review, and so we were never able to ascertain their "dipability" coefficient. But I promise you they were the cat's ass. In the Brass Balls photo you can see one of these custom bags, constructed with a special tropical fish print fabric. These bags were highly desirable and production was slow. Occasionally fist fights broke out over who would receive the next bag.

SORRY MY BAD, TYPO: PLS READ LYNN WITH HOT NEW KIDS (XOUT OTHER) i'm in u district!! i started climbing 10-12years ago.i come from running background where posing and aid are not big sellers.(they dont have the downhill 4min mile yet) i love nature's dance and my humble place in it.messner's quote of "the rape of the impossible" loosely finds me.thats just me. however, what bolters do to the rock is irreversible.(+-) if i view this debate as a non-climber, i dont think we should bolt everywhere. as a climber i dont like to see them much. over and out on this one There's tremendous truth in what you're saying. Hold on to your ideals.

Dude, whatever. When are we doing Ranger Creek?