Thanks Pinhead,(joking)Most of the routes I saw looked kool and I can't wait to try them, maybe this weekend, if all the ice is gone. Im glad to hear that people would be willing to change routes to make them more (careful) stylist. Like I said in my frist post I like to clip bolts. Maybe the routes I saw were changed after they were frist put up. So I would be willing to talk to you or anyone on which routes I think should be changed, I just don't like to see bolts one foot away from a good looking cam or nut placement.