ryland_moore

RBW, I don't disagree that it was bad etiquette. I acknowledge it is. But I just thought it funny that out of all of this, you will call out one post out of the 7 pages of "bad etiquette" that this discussion is based. The whole situation fails the smell test. I'm not justifying, just find your selection of what is and is not poor etiquette, well, funny.

Badhairdoo, I did not say I would get in anyone's face, confronting someone and trying to intimidate them through threats are two totally different things. I would most definately confront someone about taking away access to something if for no justified reason. Bone did nothing wrong. I won't state the same for Cavey and Gottermurung, but the mods. statements are clear. Spray is spray, which is why i rarely even look in this category. I think Spary should not be held to the same scrutiny as other sections. I am on this site mainly for beta, access, news, etc. I am sorry if I have a problem with trying to regulate some pretty amazing discussions. Sometimes they take a wrong turn, but in the end I hope that most people take a little something away by seeing things from others perspectives, thinking outside the box, etc. Unfortunately some folks are too narrow minded/closed-minded to do this. Hence they live in their bubble and come off like idiots most of the time. A community is made up of different people, etc. It is what allows you Badvoodoo, to have funny hair painted different colors and still be accepted. I think it is funny, but there are people out thee who think it is hot, cool, whatever. Same goes for differing opinions. If this board were all filled with the same 5.8 climbers, who thought the same, looked the same, all from similar backgrounds, all with similar opinions, then this site would be boring. You need outliers to push buttons and force others to get out of the box. O.K. there is my spray for 2004.

RBW, Poor etiquette? Are you serious? After this entire Spray, you're gonna call me out for poor etiquette? I think that this entire situation is based upon that foundation. Just calling the kettle black. And as for Alex. I now know who the banned Bone, but I think they should explain it. I rarely even look at Spray, but this is getting obsurd. C'mon guys. seriously. Jon straighten these jokers out!

The REAL skinny: Direct quotes from a moderator (nameless) to Bone: Emailed to me by one of the Moderators: "I think you should have been banned during your hate spree a week or two ago. Probably lots of mods agreed with that. It just took a catalyst (Caveman spewing threats) for anyone to actually push the button. Consider it a delayed response." "If it was up to me (if it was my website) you would have been banned earlier. Caveman was not the reason you were banned. I think the sentiment was there already. Caveman's outburst just ended your holiday." Apparently I was banned because Caveman threatened people...go figure... Bone This is total BS. I wish I know who wrote this and then I'd like to confront them at the Rope Up this coming weekend. Not in Gottermurung way, but a justification is definatley required with these comments.

Minx I thought you were leaving? "You think she's gone? She's never gone!........SEE!!!" (taken and fenagled from What ABout Bob?)

How about give them a little more. It is near a stream near Madras! And id memory serves me it is more like 85 ft. high.

Climbed at Smiff and Brook Sandahl's private ranch.

Minx, Get off your power trip and quit posting stupid shit that no one cares about. You are supposed to be a moderator so you STFU and moderate. This does not mean posting 10 times in a spray category, it means to moderate. You read and edit or ban if need be, but quit posting. That is not your job if you are true moderator. That goes for the rest of you. I think if you are moderator you do not have the power to post your worthless bile unless you need to get out information, which MattP does very well at. Minx, get outside and actually climb for a change. Maybe it will bring you back to reality, instead of acting like some bitch cop with a power complex.

Fishing license money actually goes to the hatcheries to raise more fish so that you can actually be out there fishing. Hunting licenses go to monitoring hunts, scientific studies on population trends of specific game species, and habitat improvement and controlled burns for game species. Unlike the Fee Demo program, my license dollars go back to what I am using the license for.

See this article below. Seems like the fee demo is extended through 2006 and a big push is out to make it permanent. Sorry I do not have a link as it came to me via Word. Update for Thursday September 23, 2004 ________________________________________ 1 PUBLIC LANDS PRINT THIS STORY House committee OKs Interior, Forest Service recreation fee authority Dan Berman, Land Letter reporter Tired of watching congressional appropriators reauthorize the controversial fee demonstration program, the House Resources Committee yesterday approved a bill to establish permanent authority for the federal government to charge fees on National Park Service, Fish and Wildlife Service, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation and Forest Service lands. After token opposition, the committee passed the bill by Rep. Ralph Regula (R-Ohio) by voice vote, sending it to the House floor for consideration. Interior agencies and the Forest Service are currently operating under the fee demo program established via a Regula rider to the fiscal year 1996 Interior appropriations bill. The program has been a cash cow for the departments -- Interior expects to collect $138 million from the fee demo in fiscal year 2005, mostly from the Park Service, while the Forest Service expects to collect $46 million, according to the administration budget requests. Since its creation, Congress has reauthorized fee demo several times, most recently as a rider in the fiscal year 2004 Interior appropriations bill. Fee demo is now authorized through Jan. 1, 2006. House Resources Committee Chairman Richard Pombo (R-Calif.) had pledged to the House Appropriations Committee that his committee would pass a bill dealing with the issue to avoid similar fee demo reauthorizations in the future. Implementation of the fee demo program has been controversial from its outset, as opponents charge the program has been haphazardly and unfairly implemented and claim it is wrong for the federal government to collect user fees for access to public lands already funded with taxpayer dollars. Amendment sets standards for fees Pombo sought to address those issues via a substitute amendment that would provide strict guidelines on when fees are appropriate and establish fee levels. Under the amended bill, the Forest Service and BLM would not be allowed to charge solely for parking, scenic pullouts or other non-developed areas. The Park Service and FWS would be allowed to continue to charge entrance fees. "This section may be seen as overly prescriptive, but the details were necessary and should alleviate concerns of those members who may no longer trust certain federal land management agencies with rec fee authority," Pombo said. Many Western Republicans were upset after it was discovered BLM had used nearly $1 million in fees collected in California's Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area to study the threatened Peirson's milk-vetch. Off-road vehicle groups have been fighting BLM over access to areas in the recreation area and say the studies funded by user fees as high as $90 are being used to close lands to ORV users. And a 2003 Government Accountability Office report said the fee demo program has allowed the Forest Service to improve visitor services and protect resources, but the agency could do a better job of accounting for how the money is spent (Land Letter, May 29, 2003). In June, the House attached an amendment to the fiscal year 2005 Interior spending bill prohibiting the use of funds collected under the recreation fee demonstration program for monitoring studies of endangered and threatened species (E&E Daily, June 17). Robert Funkhouser, president of the Western Slope No-Fee Coalition, said the language in the amended bill was extremely disappointing. "The premise of basic fees that is embraced by this bill and the actual wording allowing over-broad implementation is a real disappointment to the user public and those who live in rural communities," Funkhouser said. Pombo's amendment would also provide for public input by creating Recreation Advisory Committees to make recommendations to the agencies regarding the establishment, elimination or change of any fee, and would limit the authorization for the fee demo program to 10 years. "This will put an end to fears that federal land managers cannot be trusted with recreational fee authority because we lay out very specific circumstances under which these fees can be collected and spent," Pombo said of his amendment. That argument did not sit well with ranking member Nick Rahall (D-W.Va.), who said fee demo is an "experiment gone awry," leaving visitors "frustrated, confused and angered over being charged to use resources they already own." Rahall also said he was unsatisfied with the new language. "Reading this legislation is just like reading the tax code: five agencies, four different types of fees, 20 different classes of exemptions, three different types of passes and more than 50 resource councils to help sort it all out," he said. However, noting that Regula -- a formidable presence on the House Appropriations Committee -- was watching the proceedings from the front row of the audience, Rahall declined to call for a roll call vote. Funkhouser blasted the committee for acquiescing to Regula's presence in the room. "It's one man's land at this point," Funkhouser said. "Whatever this man wants, the rest of us will have to swallow." The future of fee demo Another avid fee opponent, Scott Silver of Wild Wilderness, said despite yesterday's action, it is unlikely a fee authorization bill will be completed soon. In May, the Senate passed legislation that would extend the fee demo program for the Park Service while allowing the fee collection authority for the other agencies to expire at the end of 2005, and some senators have been outspoken on their opposition to expanding the fee program. At an oversight hearing in April, Senate Forests Subcommittee Chairman Larry Craig (R-Idaho) said he would oppose a basic entrance fee to Interior and Forest Service public lands. "I want all to know that I will not support a basic entrance fee ... whether or not it is called an entrance fee or basic fee or by any other name," Craig said. "These are public lands, and they should remain open to the public." Craig said he is open to discussing collection of fees at specific recreation sites such as a lake or campground where an agency has developed amenities and improvements for visitors. But he remains opposed to entry fees like those for some national parks. "We are not going to start treating the Forest Service, BLM and wildlife refuges as if they were national parks," Craig said (E&E Daily, April 22).

I hope TJD doesn't tudor his sons in English!!!!

I will rat out anyone trying to take my rights as a climber away, including using a power drill in the wilderness area. If they acted like jerks after I spoke to them, and they continued knowing that they could have a detrimental affect to my access to climb there, then I see no difference between me ratting them out and they being so selfish towrads the rights of other climbers that their project is more important to all climbing access. We may not like the rules placed with power drilling in a wilderness area, but it is still the law. Off White, all of your exaples you use about tattling would have no direct effect on me being able to participate in that particular activity, unlike a climber power drilling in a wilderness area. Screw 'em!

Catbird, you are a little off. A 2- stroke engine emits 15 times more pollution than a standard car. However, in looking at these latest numbers (720 biles/day), using several assumptions and several facts: The park receives on average around 2.9 million people per year. Of these there is the potential for 648,000 snow machines per year to visit the park (3 months at 720 biles/day -it is actually a little longer than 3 months, but it still shows the point). Assuming that there are approx. 3 people per vehicle, (take into account all those tour buses too! And after working there for three years, it is not too far off.) you have around 750,666 cars per year. Factoring in the amount of pollution (15x) you can clearly see that 720 2-stroke snowmobiles per day will cause a great deal more air pollution than cars per year.

Stubai does make an extended bar for their aluminum crampons. Call Mike at Backcountry Gear. He may have some in stock.

I disagree with Jim. I did both in less than two weeks although I was down there for six months. To get back to Mendoza, try the Navimag boat up to Puerto Montt, catch a bus from Puerto Montt or go climbing in the Lakes district, Bariloche area. Head up to Santiago and catch a bus or car shuttle over the pass (start off point for Aconcagua) and head down into Mendoza. There is a really cool hostel in Mendoza that caters to climbers. They havea cook out once a week, cool porch out back, and everyone signs their names on the walls. They also guide up Ac. out of there. Close to the parks and fountains, and can find beta of cool obscure climbin g around Mendoza. If in Mendoza, you have to go to a restaurant that opens around 10pm and has the best food I have ever had. It looks really ritzy from the outside but the best tenderloin I've ever had was $8! They have a picture of Brad Pitt and Gweneth, who ate there every night during the filmin of 7 years in Tibet. Do the circuit, going up into the valleys as side trips and do it counterclockwise to avoid a really steep pass day. if going the other way.

Last night Dateline had a commercial that they were doing a story on the dood who cut his arm off while in Utah, while training for Denali. Maybe Rainier was the only peak with snow on it for filming since this guy was also on a mission to complete all 14k Colorado Peaks in Winter. Just a hunch.

Erden, keep us posted on arrival times in Feb. in Miami as I am having my bachelor party down there around that time. Awesome! Glad the next chapter is fully under way!!!!

Agree with Cavey on forgoing a guide. If you have done S. Side of Adams or S. Side of Hood and have crevasse "slogging" experience, you should be fine. I only saw one crevasse and it was fairly low and off to the side of our route. Senor Reyes is a good guy, will allow you to park your rental off the streets and in the "compound." Plus, will handle the jeep trip up to the mountain hut. He also has a bouldering wall and good climbing films. We hung out with Barry Blanchard and his gal there before they took two clients up from NY. Acclimating on La Malinche is also a good idea. Take your time and have fun. We finished off the trip by going down from the summit and to the Gulf to Veracruz where we were sipping on margaritas, riding wave runners, and oggling chicas in thongs within less than 24 hrs after standing on the summit. My climbing partners and I have concluded that there is nowhere else in the world where this can be done. Maybe in Ecuador or Peru, but getting out from your approach and driving would kill it. Since there is no approach on Orizaba, it works. Storms and altitude will be your biggest deterents.

Road Hard, Put Up Wet - Foster Falls, TN.

If I learned one thing from the Deep South, it was never to talk politics with friends. You just don't do it unless you don't eant them to be your friends. Talk as much politics with people you don't like, cause the hatred will only grow stronger. SO, instead of throwing insults regarding to political lines, mainly because I rarely stand on one regarding party affiliation, I'll just throw out insults from behind my anonymous (my real name) personna on the Internet. Hey Greg_W! Your new girlfriend was great last night! Hey Ashw_Justin! D and D is for Sally's and Geeks who don't get laid! Hey Goter....um.... whatever your name is! Norse Gods were really queers who tried to cover up their lack of manhood by staying out at sea "exploring" each others deepest reaches!!!!No wonder they never made it as a society! No more reproduction!!!!! Great thread, but bowhunting is calling me in the Steens. See ya on Tuesday! Come on, isn't someone gonna tell me bowhunting is for pansy asses who haven't been weened from their momma?

PM jkrueger. He climbs at that level and I have done several sessions with him last summer before work when the rock was cool.

Take a fly rod as well. Those fish don't see too much pressure east of the PCT and is pretty easy. 20 fish evening no problem.

At the base of the lateral moraine on the way out along the Blue Glacier of Mount Olympus. They were in a trash bag, looked to be early 90's boots with blue boots and red cuffs. Size 10 and looked to be rentals with "OM" written on the back. Seems like someone either ditched them on purpose because they didn't want to carry them all the way out, or they fell off of a pack. However, there was a rock placed on top of the plastic bag. "OM" stand for Olympic Mountaineering???? If they were yours, or you want them, they are located about 100 yards up glacier from where the trail down to the glacier from the moraine ends. They were about 50 vertical feet above the actual glacier on a "talus trail" right along the crest. Hell if I was going to haul those things out for your forgetful ass!

Screw REI!!!!!!! (Sorry Squid and Erden) Nothing but a POS Corporation........ Power to the Little Man!!!!!!! REI is the Wal-Mart of the Outdoor Industry!!!!!!