ryland_moore

To answer some of the questions: We were not climbing below anyone, they started the route while we were on the second pitch. My buddy was hit while rapping past the leader of the second party as he had rapped to the right sie of the flow to avoid knocking any ice dowen on the belayer of the second party when he was hit. We were unable to communicate with the group as they were too far below us and the wind would not carry our voices. We did not know if they were waiting at the top of the first pitch or not when we rapped. Once the first person rapped, the second went. You could not see down to the top of the first pitch until you rapped about 75 feet down. There was no way to communicate back up at the top that someone was leading the second pitch and so you should wait until they were finished. As my buddy rapped, he passed the guy leading up the second pitch and therefore had to continue down as fast as he could. I do not know if my buddy said anything to him on the way down, but there is no way the guy was going to stop climbing while on lead. Both people were not inexperienced, only the guy seconding. The leader appeared to be decent. I would not feel any differently if they were two expert climbers or a soloist. The fact of the matter is the party should have waited for us to finish the climb, knowing that we would be rapping soon and then get on the ice. I still feel they put themselves in danger, and us in danger. This would have all been avoided if the second party had waited and been patient. I should add that a party of two from cc.com showed up in the morning as we were about to begin. Seeing us there, they decided to wait and go elsewhere.

Thanks Jason for your comments. Yes, we may have played a role in this by deciding to rap. One of my partners knew right off who would be more experienced just by looking at the two on the ground. We never talked to them until we were rapping because they did not get to the top of the first pitch until we were already up climbing the second. The only time I talked to the guy was at the top when I was rapping off. I guess the newbie also got an earful from my partner, whether warranted or not, at the belay on top of the first pitch to let him know what he thought of his partner. Usually, accidents do not occur from one incident, and this may be the case here. We did not know where on the route they were when rapping the second pitch, could not call down to them in 45-60 mph winds, and wanted to get down as fast as we could because of the winds. Would you ever climb directly below someone on an ice route?

So, this morning while climbing Crown Jewel in the Gorge, there was a party of two from Portland who came, racked up, and started climbing the first pitch while we were heading up the second pitch. Being in the direct line of fire while we were climbing, I was worried that if we knocked down some ice on the leader, we could cause a severe accident. Being that me and my partners climb ice several times a year and can lead up to WI 5, we know how to read ice and take care not to knock down ice unnecessarily. To make a long story short, after we topped out and began to rappel, my partner rapped past the other team, now leading the second pitch. When he was almost down to the anchors of the top of the first pitch, the leader above knocked down a huge chunk of ice about the size of a small microwave. He yelled ice but it was greatly muffled by the wind (I heard it as he was only 15 feet from the top where I was waiting to rap). My partner was only 15 ft. above the first pitch, so the ice fell over 100 feet before smashing my partner in the helmet, chest, and left arm. He was seriously injured and very lucky that the ice didn't hit him on his brake hand or knock him out or cut the ropes, where he would surely have fallen to his death. We thought he fractured his wrist and were able to get him on rappel so he could lower himself to the ground albeit without the use of his left arm. I've been climbing ice since 1999 and rock climbing since 1992 and was the least experienced of the 3 of us. I have always known it to never climb below someone on ice or climb on the other side, which these two did not do. Does this not seem like an extremely poor call in judgement, ice climbing ethics, and overall lack of common sense? Plus the "leader" brought out a guy who seemed to barely have been on ice, just by watching his technique and pick placement. I am not picking on a guy with less skills here, but making the point that the more experienced climber should have known not to climb until we were down and put his partner in a dangerous position without the newbie even knowing he was in one. I think the guy's name was Jonathan and he drove a red Subaru with stickers from New Hampshire but lives in Portland. Anyone know him? My partner wants to kick his ass! I also write the details of this person, becasue if he is on this board, he needs to learn a serious lesson here, and for those of you on this board who may receive a pm from him to climb, you will know a little bit more about his "ethics" and safety issues other than I climb this grade and have done these routes..... My partner went straight to the hospital and got an X-Ray which came back negative on the fracture, but does have a "severe hemotoma" on his left forearm that may have to be drained on Tuesday if the swelling does not go down, and a bruised chest. Plus this asshole screwed up our plans to actually climb some better and more challenging lines near Ainsworth later that day. It put a damper on an overall amazing day, all from a lack of consideration, safety, and not only putting us in danger, but he and his partner. Am I wrong to get mad or do I have reason to be upset? I am not saying that the ice falling was this guy's fault, as ice comes down when we least expect it. I am saying that this guy should have never started climbing beneath us, because we could have severely hurt him or his partner and by him pushing on the climb, inadvertently knocked ice off which could have easily killed my partner if the ice fell a few inches closer to his head. I see this as one of the worst examples of mentoring and lacvk of climbing ability I've ever experience, and that is even compared to the gumby situation that occurred on Hood several years ago (that I wrote the Climbing article on, for those of you who've been reading cc.com that long ago to remember....) Sorry for the rant, but I would like the group's opinion. And I may just be hot-tempered and wound up right now as a 50ft. Hemlock just crashed through my fence and my neighbors in my back yard and instead of climbing tomorrow, I need to work on neighbor relations and get the chainsaw out to cut it up and explain why their dogs can no longer hang out in the back yard without a fence.....

PRG is way overpriced for what you get, although the lead walls are definately the best in Portland. Check out the new bouldering gym, The Circuit on SW Macadam.

Yeah, I came back through the Gorge last night and it was cold! Not as cold as south of the Dalles where I was working all day, but alot colder than the day before! I watched CJ for a while @4pm and it looked in a lot better condition than the day before. Ice at Ainsworth seems really promising, plus there just seemd to be more consolidation all around. It should be a good weekend! Now don't everyone pile up in a few areas. The further east you go, the better the ice gets! I found some potential first ascents on some remote BLM land yesterday and one has two free-hanging pillars each about 40 feet in height. They have both touched down, and with temps last night in the low teens in its location, it should be good to go this weekend. There is so much ice out there, go get it! I will post about these areas I found after this weekend. It will be around for a while, it seems.

I'd agree with what Marcus and others have said. I spent from noon -3pm today scouting ice in the Gorge. I watched a large block fall from the upper left side of Crown Jewel (about the size of a bike) and could see water running underneath the lower right 1/3 of the falls. Smaller debris about the size of a softball came down regularly. The upper falls is thin with a lot of exposed rock and visible water running. It did not freeze in the Gorge last night and so has been melting continuously for over 24 hrs. Tonight is different as the colder temps have returned and the east wind is back now. There was no wind in the Gorge today. There is less ice in the Gorge than last Friday when I scouted. I hiked up from the Ainsworth campground and up the stream gulley to some climbs and saw what Maecus saw. It looked solid up higher but down low was not continuous. If the colder temps last a little longer and go back to what it was doing this weekend and late last week, then the ice will continue. I think I am going to postpone my climb until later in the week to assess the ice as I was pretty spooked when I saw the large block fall today on Crown. Especially since it was on the left side. Have fun out there but be safe. The ice will come to the Gorge again!

Did you do the second pitch or just the first?

Hey AFIVE, did you do the second pitch of Crown Jewel and did you have any trouble finding the anchors on the left side for the top of the first pitch??? Also, do you just rap off trees at the top of the second pitch, set up a V-thread, or what?

I'd call 6F seriously cold for Cascades - it stay like this for a week. http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/total_forecast/i...;lon=-121.70625 Oleg, You were saying????? I am sorry to say, I told you so, but at least you got to play around on Reid....... I will trust general weather reports to NOAA but when it comes to site specific temps. I look straight to actual readings on the mountain and there was an inversion up there, meaning no ice or rime on Yocum....

I tried to post some on Friday as it was thin, but in. I am going out tomorrow and Wednesday, so I will try and get some more pics. Will climb hopefully Wednesday morning, so will have pics from that as well. This cold spell will be around, so this weekend, it should be really nice and not nearly as wet.

Was out there this morning to the Dalles and ice is forming up well. Driving back through this afternoon, it didn't change too much. Not climbable yet, but if we can get cold temps for another week, it might just go. I will post pics later as I took some on the drive out. There does appear to be some lines'in' on the WA side up high just across from the Bonneville Dam. Have no idea how to get up there, but freezing level was there as the trees were all encrusted in snow/rime below these lines. All of the main flows were still running water on the Oregon side and the other seeps just looked very thin and spicy, like chandeliers.

No way on Yocum....That thing needs to be seriously frozen uo with rime and with a temp. inversion and freezing levels up to 10,800' I'd say get some skiezin' in.

Ryland Moore of Team "Rednecks On Ice" Denali expedition walking around Kahiltna Basecamp after a successful summit bid, asking French climbers how long it took to walk up to the top, if the views were nice, and if they wanted a shot of bourbon.

No. You need a bill, which your mountaineering boots do not have. Instead, buy a pair of AT bindings like the 500s or 505s that will take a mountaineering boot. Keep in mind, if skiing with mountaineering boots, it ain't easy and with no cuff support, you won't be ripping up the steep n' deep. I'd recommend getting a pair of AT bindings and Boots and climbing in your AT boots. My climbing partner summitted Denali in AT boots and you can climb anything around here with AT boots as long as you do not need to French technique anything. You can also climb ice in AT boots as well.

I loved my Cloudveil jacket when living in Jackson and it did well for me on Denali when temps were cold and dry. It works alright out here too. Just don't take it on a N. Cascades approach to an obscure peak as devil's club and slide alder have a way at grabbing the stitching and causing runs.

To my knowledge DFA does not post under any other name, at least the ones originally mentioned, since I know most of those guys and DFA as well and they are not him. Ironically, if you knew him it would be tough to miss him! DFA, I think it is awesome you have been able to keep your identity under raps for so long. The only way I found out was from a climbing buddy at PRG who doesn't even post on this site......Keep it up.

There was a Japanese climber known as the Japanese Caribou who would spend days in a meat locker with no light and practice putting on all gear, fixing skis/bindings, cooking and taking apart and putting back together stove, and doing daily chores in preparation for a winter solo ascent of Denali. The most I've done is bring a pack into 24-hour fitness 4 times a week and load them up with a down jacket and two 35 lb. weights and get on the stairmaster for an hour to train for Denali. I did get weird looks, but plenty of girls came up to ask what I was doing too! The staff said it was o.k. as long as I didn't steal their equipment. Never thought I looked like a crook!

Poison Ivy is on the east coast while Poison Oak is on the west. Some contest that poison Oak is more serious and people are more allergic to poison oak. That being said, if you can avoid treating it with steroids and let your body deal with it, you may be able to build up a tolerance or defense. I had a friend in Eugene who ate poison oak. She got it really bad and in her throat and lasted about a month. That was fifteen years ago and now she works in the woods all yearand can handle it physically without any reaction. I still get it every year while turkey hunting when the leaves and toxins are fresh. I carry TechNu with me and put it on my clothes after I leave the woods, but still manage to get it. I only go to the steroids if it gets to the nether regions. Also, if you know you have come into contact with it, find water immediately and gently wipe off the exposed skin in cool water. The toxins are like little bubbles. They break open and are absorbed through the skin. If you can be really careful and not touch the area that came in contact, you have a chance of not breaking open the toxin bubbles and can get it off of you in time. But, the toxin bubbles are easily opened. Sweat dripping on the skin is strong enough to open them up, hence you have to get to water fast.

There is one that Erik and I saw when we didn't look at the topo for W. Ridge of STuart and just climbed the Ridge proper from the base. Above three pitches of Class IV scrambling and we climbed right to it. Then when we crossed through to the other side, we looked down and saw where climbers were coming up the gulley and we realized we were off route. It is about 3x the size of the one telemarker posted above. No pics though.

Thanks for the clarification, Jason. I guess it makes sense regarding above and below standards, but I would look at Clint's climbing resume and say it is WAAAAY below standard. He may have the personal skills, and even his WFR and Avi I, but it is hard to teach experience like weather patterns, snow conditions, subtle signs that clients might be giving you, that you've never experienced in the mountains becasue you haven't been there that long. Someone who has been climbing a lot for several years and been out in all types of conditions with different partners on rock, alpine, glaciers, and ice would have a much deeper perspective than someone like Clint who has been on Rainier 3 times in summer conditions. If the guide services are willing to train people like that, then more power to them, becasue they can be assured the newbie guid was trained by one of their own whom they trust, if not and you need these skills prior to coming on, then that is what I was referring to. Not to dis you Clint, becasue I think it is wonderful that you are setting this goal and want to achieve it, but from what I've read, don't go in there expecting to be hired, when from the outside, you may need a few more seasons. I'd say if you make it, awesome. I am sure it will be years you will remember forever. If you don't, then keep trying as you seem to have the drive and desire to teach.

Clint, I'd say go get more experience. If I knew my guide (if I ever used one) had only climbed Rainier via the dog routes a couple times and that was the extent of his experience, I'd be a little leery on going with that company. I thought most guides had to be able to lead 5.10 trad solid, climb WI4+ on lead, know high angle rescue situations, be AMGA cert., and have considerable experience in the Cascades, AK, Andes, and/or Eurpoe and the Himalayas. I have climbed all over the cascades, AK, and the Andes, plus countless road trips for rock and ice climbing, but would not consider myself to be guide material. I think Clint is a little premature, or am I wrong? If so, then I will look at guide companies in a whole new light taking on someone as inexperienced as Clint unless they have some mentor program for several years that you work up to and are a grunt for a while shadowing senior guides in different environments than trenched out dog routes on the Emmons of DC.

I think the bigger concern would be that Stein's Pillar was rap bolted in Ochoco National Forest. While not illegal to bolt in National Forest lands unless expressly stated, it does a disservice to the climbing community as a whole if hikers and other groups (Native Americans!) feel that climbers trashed the area.....

Ah, but Wimsey, there is a "guidebook" although not formally published.........

I use the Beal Rando but you can also get it in a 40m if I am not mistaken.

No, just the opposite! That is an awesome time to climb in Ecuador and Bolivia. Peru is a different story, as their best climbing season is in their winter. Go jump on the Ecuadorian volcanoes like El Cayembe, Cotopaxi, and Chimborazo. Have fun! December is also prime for Aconcagua.