ryland_moore

Jon, we are all trying to think of ways to get these guys off the mountain. A lot off people from here would try and lend a hand and volunteer. You may know what it is like in a heavy storm on Denali just as many of us do, but going up on Hood right now, in my opinion, is as close to a death wish as I can think of. 7,000' may be raining and 35 F, but you are forgetting what the windchill factor would be (does not have an effect on precip., remember). At 80 mph sustained (which is what they are calling for today and tomorrow) equates to around 10 F with windchill. Assuming that temps drop an average of 10 degrees/1,000' and you are looking at -5F on the summit which equates to -43 F with windchill on the summit. I am not denying your claims, but you cannot talk to someone in 80 mph winds. You cannot yell to them right next to you, let alone hear someone else with a bull horn or such. Even the most experienced climbers who know Hood like the back of their hands would have no idea if they were about to walk of the summit ridge in a white out due to the snow conditions and how cornices have built up over the last week. The summit ridge could be a lot larger from leeward loading or the cornices could have naturally collapsed. The bottom line is, I think it is suicide, no matter what the temps are. Coupled with the high avy conditions, it doesn't matter what route you take when there are natural avis going off everywhere. The S. Side naturally slides in several places. Would you be willing to walk on loaded slopes in a whiteout and hearing natural slides all around you in 80 mph winds? I don't know a single person who would be willing to risk so much and I doubt the families of the missing climbers would want others to potentially die trying to find their loved ones. The fact of the matter is that it is simply too dangerous to go up there when chances are so slim of finding anything and chances are so great for another accident to occur. I am usually of your same mentality in that desperate times calls for desperate measures, but unfortunately, I feel that what you propose is beyond desperate and does venture into the realm of craziness. Keep 'em coming though and keep the climbers and all who are helping in your prayers. As for age, I wouldn't use that as a judgement. Most of the guys on PMR I know are in their late 20s to late 30s and all are super strong climbers, backcountry skiers, and have climbed much more technical routes than the West Butt. Since you have never been on the N. Side, picture the steepest section of the W, Butt between 14 and 16k, but in a white out with some rock that is not solid like on Denali and is 2-3 times steeper (around 80 degrees in some steps and averages 55 degrees, with spindrift aqnd natural avis coming down from 2,000 ft above and tell me if they are comparable. I am sorry. I have been on both and they are not.....

Let us not forget Tomaz Humar's survival on the Rupal Face last year after 6 days in a snow cave......Let's pray that a similar outcome appears.....

DH, being that you are not from around here, you wouldn't have known that the weather was stellar last week in oregon when they left, that the forecast was not going to turn bad until mid-late Saturday, after their set time to return. Are you telling me that you don't go out to climb if bad weather is expected several days after your expected return time? Or do you always believe what a weather forecast tells you? if so, then I guess you don't get out much. Too bad, because you are missing out....

Hey Tex! How's the desert? Tex, I don't think the media is covering this in an informed manner (read climber's knowledge) and they probably do not have all the details down, like we all know usually happens from previous experience. I think what the spokesman was trying to get across from the interview, was that they were well prepared and had probably stocked up on some last minute items like you or I would before a weekend in the Cascades. Maybe that the spokesman relates going to REi as buying equipment, when we as climbers all know that that is probably not the case, unless someone forgot to pack something or lost something in transit. It sounds like they have suffiencient experience to climb the NF routes on Hood from their climbing resumes under normal late fall conditions. But I am just speculating from the climbs and routes they have been reported as climbing (Liberty Ridge was the only specific route given ) all the rest were large mountains but there is a huge difference between summitting Denali via the West Butt vs. the Cassin. That information was not given. Plus, we all know how spinddrift and high winds can turn a fun alpine route into a miserable trap fast. I don't think we will know the full story until they are down and able to recount what happened. I pray that we will be afforded this opportunity. Sending warm thoughts on this miserable night...

I don't think that the spokesman for the family is a climber after seeing him on the news tonight nor do I think he is implying that because they have good equipment, they are good climbers. The wind is howling in North Portland right now as I watch a huge doug fir in my backyard. I can only imagine what the winds are like up high. I pray that the snow cave holds up in this storm and that they are snug and safe, they keep the airway open, and they return to solid ground tomorrow. It is easy to armchair quarterback situations like these, but I myself was talking to friends about heading up Saturday morning for a ski descent down the Wy'East route and we bailed due to weather. Could have easily been anyone of us up there, especially with how good conditions were late last week and before the weekend. The Cascades do and always will humble me. Cluck, Iain and others of PMR and HRCR, plus all the guys at the sherriff's offices, thanks for all of your hard work and putting your lives at risk to save others. Godspeed.

Sounds like it is not your grip strength but your grip endurance right? Try similar exercises that focus on endurance. it is difficult to try not to overgrip tools, especially if you have l ashes to back you up, but to build up your grip endurance I would hang on your tools without feet touching, when you start getting pumped, try shaking out just like you would on rock and rotate focusing on keeping your weight on your frame. As you continue to get more ad more pumped from the grip, add a toe touch but trying to eep as much of your weight on your hands and bone frame, do this until failure. Then wait 30 secs. and do it again. Track how long you hang each time and chart it daily. Try to relx when doing this and see how loosely you can grip your axes without slipping. This of course is easier said then done while actually on the sharp end 20 ft. above your last screw, but if you have everything else down and are solid on ice, this would be the next thing. I must let you know that I am no expert and cannot lead over WI4, but have improved my grip strength dramatically this way both for ice climbing and a similar workout for improving grip on slopers.....

Is he 45 and from Corvallis? If so, there were some small blurbs in the Albany paper yesterday about a suicidal man there.....Bummer if it is him.

There is a 4-page thread Here

Oh man well let's hope they did bring that bivy sack.....Praying that everyone stays safe up here....

Raindawg states Less of an impact? Now I know you are ill-informed and have tunnel vision in this debate. Snowmobiling (and other off road vehicles) with a 2 stroke motor causes more environmental pollution than any other form of transportation. Did you know that 25-30% of a snowmobiles fuel mixture is actually discharged unburned when in operation? That collects in all of the snow and when the spring run-off comes, all of the oil runs into our lakes and rivers, killing thousands of fish and wildlife. Why do you think that Park Rangers in Yellowstone must wear protective gas masks at park entrances in the winter? It is not from the sulfur released by geysers, I promise you. You cannot compare sport climbing's environmental degredation to one of the worst polluters on the face of the earth. Pollution from snowmobiles is so great that the government had to enact a new policy in 2002 under the Clean Air Act that includes companies that produce two-stroke engines to ban them over time in favor of a four-stroke. The ship's course will never be corrected, Raindawg. You are now a minority. Of course you are entitled for your opinion and your environmental ethic. We, as climber's should always be striving to reduce our ecological footprint. It is what got the majority of us into the sport. However, I disagree with some of your statements regarding the environmental destruction found with sport climbing. I went to college up on top of a mountain in rural Tennessee. It is the 2nd largest college campus in the US with only 1,200 students. We were literally surrounded by 29 miles of sandstone bluff (the boundary of the campus) ranging from 20-200 feet in height. There are exactly 5 sport routes along the entire trail and bolting is governed by the University. However, at the same time that a bolting policy came in to play, another rule was also issued regarding the degredation caused by trad climbers topping out. Massive trails coming down steep slopes were causing large amounts of erosion in an otherwise pristine environment. This caused the university to require anchor bolts if no other natural anchors were available. A study by several University professors began looking at areas like T-Wall and Sunset for similar issues with topping out and causing environmental degredation and found that it does cause a great deal of erosional problems, destruction of native vegetation, and actual physical changes to the canopy that had a trickle-down effect on other species such as birds that relied on edge vsa. canopy. I will try and find the study and then find a way to post it, but there were geology, soils, and forestry professors and students looking at this for several years. Placing bolts in itself is not an environmental travesty. Yes, they can be an eyesore, but they can also be masked by paint. If you look at the environmental destruction caused by the production of bolts and large masses of people coming to an area because of them, then I am sensitive to this as well. But to argue that sport climbing has made Smith an environmental travesty is not founded by me. If anything, look at the non-point source polution flowing through the Crooked River from poor irrigation practices and overapplication of pesticides in the local farms around Smith. My profession involves the environment as I was a director of a land trust for many years working to protect land and water from environmental degredation. Pristine areas that are publicly and privately owned should and are being protected. But Smith is a State Park, to be used by all. Just like the National Forests. Smith is not a national park or monument and I don't see any reason that it should be. It is great to have someone want to push a ground-up ethic and I love alpine trad more than anything in the world, but sport climbing has a special place in our world and it will continue to proliferate. You can profess all you want to but unfortunately, in the majority of cases, it will fall on deaft ears.

Is "fausty" "D-Dog"? and if you say this, how do you know? Do you know whoat D-dog looks like?

Can yougive any dtails over what has happened in the last year and 1/2? interested in giving any reflection into the whole situation? Glad to see everything is back on track for you? Or is it? best of luck, D-Dog...

The Everest series running on Discovery channel Tuesday nights at 10pm has an exercise induced asthmatic on the team and he was attmepting to climb without oxygen and was doing really well until the summit bid....

Eugene at the new backcountry gear store.....

I am not trying to silence dissent. I welcome it and think it has its rightful place in any conversaation or debate. just that if you are going to provide the dissent, that you can back it up or be careful the way in which you provide the dissenting opinion so that itdoes not make you look silly. I am sure Pope is a great guy, just think he takes it a little far in his preaching when he himslef is guilty of what he speaks out against....

True that, SC. I just hate when people who profess one thing but are not following it themselves. I am just as guiltyf this as the next guy, but if you are going to go out on a limb for something, then you better be able to back it up. Plus, he should look into who he is talking about boycotting. An amazing group of guys at backcountry gear who support cc.com and provide quality service and gear in a sea of big-box REI retailers.... I'd have more respect for someone who professed they believe in chipped routes, placed glue ons, andd retro-bolted everything if they actually did, then someone talking one thing but doing another......Hey Eddie!

Figger Eight, it is hard to admire someone for their convictions when they themsleves do not follow it.....

No, it was for Pope and his patchouli lover, Raindawg....

Funny you say this Pope, because I think I have actually seen you climbing at Smith before......... Or are you just one of the typical" talk the talk but don't walk the walk" hippie pretenders? I don't like everything about Smith, like glue-on holds bnd chipped routes, but I do see that there is a place for sport climbing. Let me ask you Pope, since you are so high and mighty about climbing traditions, why not go back to bare feet, climbing with a hemp rope and only using passive protection? Why not just tie knots and place those instead of stoppers? Got any cams? Can't use hose because they are "new" and it "changes" the sport. Allows too many "gumbies" into trad crags.... Ever places a knifeblade or Lost Arrow, Pope? Can't do that. You are scarring the rock permanently. What about the via feratta you've professed about on cc.com? Ban that too? If that isn't defacing the rock, then I don't know what is. Your drivel is mindless. Think things through before you start spraying about something you read or someone else's opinion you decided to assume. Otherwise, no one will take you seriously. Practice what you preach and maybe you will get somewhere. You may think that sport climbing is bad, but you do it. Maybe your ethics aren't in line with what you believe? You deal with it. Don't push it on me......

The locals usually take care of that anyway......

I was hoping Mr. Freih would be or someone that has a contact at PRG. What about other areas that someone has contact with? Other gyms, outdoor stores that have some space?

I'll be coming back late from Hood River, but will try and stop in since I live in NoPo (I hate that name). I will be dressed upfrom a Christmas party, so don't hold that against me.

322.9. I'm improving!!!!

Since PRG just did the dry tool comp last month, can John use connections from setting that up to get this to PDX one night after climbing? They have a huge venue for it. This would be pretty cool to see in PDX! We could definately get the word out fast to those in the know. Let me know how I can help...

Kennedy School is awesome. You can rent out the Library, perfect for that size then go explore the other areas. Our office does this every year and then stays overnight. Fun times overall.....