wdietsch

yah I did read it and do appreciate that the thread was left to be viewed with an invitation for real info ... it's just the basic concept of censorship which bugs me in general .. not necessarily this one particular thread. I agree with RobBob's comment that "moderation" somtimes turns people away from this site. It has me on more that one occasion. On the flip side, some say there is not enough.

Regardless of how "good intentioned" an act such as locking a thread or deleteing a post may be, it is still censorship. I personally do not care to have someone dictate to me what I can and cannot see, read or hear. I equate this entire board to sitting in a pub talking shit with friends and other climbers about routes, adventures, gear and having a good time in the mountains. If a line of conversation is started at "the table" which I find offensive, I am free to ignore which ever comments I wish, and/or to get up and walk away ... no one if forcing me to stay ... I do not expect the group as a whole to abandon a topic because it offends me, unless of course you are taking about my mother. Like anything else in life we should be able to take the good with the bad and sort out for ourselves, what we as individuals, believe is in our own best interests ... come on .. we are all growups here. That being said, I wish to clarify that I am in no way promoting "spray attacks" or unbridled slander toward anyone on this site ... Rock on, climb safe .... Wes

In mid April you will more that likely still be putting in several miles on the road before Cold Springs. In an average snow year it is usual early to mid June until you can drive to the end of the road. As far as a rental car, go with a 4x4, get the insurance and have at it. You will need to stop at the Trout Lake RS to register and they will be able to give you fairly recent road info. In mid-April all three route that you name will be pretty much straight forward snow routes with no real objective dangers. Of these route the Mazama is the most aesthetic. Traversing far enough to the east will give you some pretty impressive views of Battlement Ridge and the Klickitat Glacier. Given that you are traveling out here to do this and that you are coming pretty early in the "normal season" I would come with a back up plan. Mid-April can still bring a shit load of snow to the Cascades.

[quote Neither Price nor Rodgers is German. However, after Leavenworth was Bavarianized, Germans began moving there. Fruit-seller Rudy Prey's family moved to Leavenworth from Germany in 1975. "There are actually quite a few German people in Leavenworth," he says. The Chamber of Commerce says that a quarter of the town's current residents claim a German connection.

Shred, I'll let it slide this time, since you are quite the host and all ..... sucks you're moving out of the pad, that place has a ton of character ...... that's okay, you stay on your side of the river and keep paying that state income tax and I'll keep driven over the bridge to get out of the sales tax ... especially when buying for school clothes for the boys.

Sabertooth .... this is a really fun route, I've done it twice. The first time was mid-June about 1983. Me an a buddy were actually headed to do the Adams icefall but it was such a cluster-f^ck of gumbies we opted for Stormy Monday. Rockfall was of no real issue. Low temps,good snow year, only reach "bitch" was the decent down the North Ridge. The upper gulley was pretty straight forward. We used mostly pickets (leap frog) and if I remember right a couple of pieces of rock pro near the small cleaver on the climber's right just before the couloir proper. The second time we did it was late October of 94/95? If you decide to go at this time of year (given resonable conditions) take 3-4 screws, a couple of pins and a few pieces of pro 1 to 2" along with a second tool and be ready from some waterice in the gulley (sshhhh) ..... you will have a blast! enjoy ..... Wes

Josh .... no I do not own a Chaos. I do however own a Chernobyl (love it) and will be adding a Valdez in the next 6 months. I have talked to a several Chaos owners and all have had good things to say. You are correct ... no stays, all CCW packs are "foam frame". They are what they are. Put 60lbs in it and I am sure you will suffer. I've skied with my Chernobyl very over stuffed and will admit it can be a work out, but then again I am only an average AT skier. cheers .... Wes

LMAO ..... that's classic .... well done

Skip ..... A decent "Alpine Pack" of the size you are looking for will be difficult to find for under 200 bones. I suggest you look at the CCW Chaos. MRSP is $240 for a nominal volume of 4000 @ 3.75 lbs ... very hard to beat. CCW construction is bomber, customer service (if you buy direct) is incredible ... check it out Cold Cold World Chaos

here is a good place to start ..... California Ice Climbing Report

Marcus .... congrates to you and Christian. I too am curious as whether you traversed the gendarmes or took them straight on. Well done, have fun in Utah.

well done guys .....

I've held back chiming in on this for a couple of days trying to be objective in my own head ..... fuck it Alex and others .... I find it some what ironic that you, who along with Jason M, have been scrounging up info on Washington ice from many of the regulars on this sight for almost two years ... take the position that you have. Numerous people have shared great personal info here which we all have benefited from. But when asked to share yourselves you instead wish to dangle this "carrot" in front of those interested and say "No, finder's - keeper's .... neener, neener, neener". I agree with Capt, Dru and Erik ... if you don't plan on being forthright with the information, if and when you are asked, and asked politely I might add, why bother posting it here. When Jason posted up the first draft of "The Elusive Beast" back in '01 and asked for info from all of us here I promptly emailed him everything I had regarding the Chinook Pass, White Pass and south central Washington areas. I didn't even get a "thank you". Since then I have shared the same info with anyone and everyone that has asked (not that this area is any kind of a hidden gem). I also find it somewhat arogant that today some people "find" areas that they claim to be "new" and "virgin". Not saying that the area in discussion is not a new "find", however simply pointing out that several climbing areas have gone thru times with little or no activity (Tieton in the early-mid 70's, Vantage in the late 70's- early 80's) and hence the lack of publicity. We all know they did sell ice tools in the '60's and '70's and I definatly agree with the premise that there area a good number of climbers both in the past and today that don't make all of their activity publicly known by submitting it to the numerous publications availble. my $0.02 .... not meant to offend sincerely, wes

or how about this one .... web page

looks like more than just base and mid-layers are on sale ..... The Icefall Softshell is going for $135 .... that a really good deal ... anyone ever tried one?

a couple of months ago I was at the store in Jantzen Beach and bought a #3 bug ... I had to laugh when the sales guy remarked ... "wow I've never sold any of these nails before" .... I would guess the premise of REI no longer carrying them is what's up ... could be a good time to get some deals during the spring sale

The Mountain Shoppe has been doing this for several years now ... it's not a new thing

My older two kids had no clue who Aerosmith was until Run DMC did the cover of Walk this Way .... since then I have strove much harder to properly educate them

On a smalll screen size such as a laptop ..... it bites, no offense intended .... how do I turn it off?

cracked .... sorry if I came off a little rude ... I hadn't had my morning infusion, I am sure your intentions were well founded

I certainly hope you are not assuming that I take these reviews to be gospel personally, to me, craftsmanship means alot .... example Arc'Teryx vs cheap Campmor imitation WB400 ... been there, done that .... I did not ask for a lesson in buying a soft shell. I asked if anyone here owned one of these units mfg'd by Beyond and what they thought about it ... I guess in your case the anwer is no.

Does anyone here own one of the Cold Fusion jackets made by "Beyond Fleece" in Eugene, OR? I had never heard of them before until the latest issue of Climbing which has a limited "soft shell" review and these guys received a pretty respectable rating.

One thing I have tried with positive but limited success is to use the liners of my old Kastinger AT boots in the shell of my climbing boot. The additional rigidity, height and support of the cuff works pretty good. Granted this means you have to go buy some AT liners ... Personaly for doing something like the West Buttress/Washburn I would just go AT boots all the way. They are warm and really not that bad for non technical climbing. Both the Mountain Shoppe and Marmot in Bellevue sell their old AT rental gear pretty cheap .. consider picking up some used boots and buying a new liner that will conform to YOUR feet. my $0.02 wes

yocum ......Y-O-C-U-M ...... yocum

right on Tex ... could you tell what kind of shape the north side of the upper buttress was in ?