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Good point. Here I (we) am/are waxing all philosophical about climb aesthetics and such; but the reality is, is that this was probably just a thief who wanted a hanger, or a selfish hardman wanting to keep gumbies away, or both.

Not to mention the fact that while we were equipping the Afghan freedom fighters they were focusing their attacks on the members of an occupying military force, as opposed to random civilians. I think even JayB could probably label fighters in Iraq focusing on blowing up allied convoys and checkpoints as freedom fighters. The ones setting off carbombs in markets are the terrorists.

I was careful to include a "." to make it an abbreviation, but your formulation Jpn is better.

I totally agree with your sentiment, but I don't think that it prevails in the climbing community as a whole. It is not recognized by many that the practice of making climbs more accessible for more climbers often removes value for other climbers. Just look at the number of people who use the "if the don't like it, skip it" argument. This line of reasoning asserts that you can have it both ways. That, depending on users choices, a line can be both easy to climb and hard. But it just ain't so. At a place like Index, there are limited resources. Unfortunately there are differing attitudes on what comprises a fun day at the crags. These divergent interests are going to occasionally clash, witness Jap. Gardens P1 Short Anchors. Fortunately, there is much hulabaloo over a single climb. While we debate what should be done with this lone cherry in the cocktail, the majority of climbs are being left alone. With respect to this one climb my opinion is that Index does not have an overabundance of moderate climbs. Jap. Gardens P1 gave the moderate climbers one more asset. Furthermore, due to the facts that: 1) the anchors in question are at a no hands stance, and ironically, 2) since there is good pro nearby, an argument that these anchors are somehow removing a challenge for the harder climbers would be baseless. So I would vote to keep the anchors there.

The first quotation speaks of the individual relinquishing control and allowing the greater community to decide. The second quotation presents an opinion held by an individual (and probably quite a few others), but may not reflect the opinion of the overall community. Isn't the "lowest common denominator" pretty much just a derogatory term for a plurality, a stance that a large percentage of those in the community can agree upon? It is contradictory to simultaneously spout that the "community" should decide and in the next breath imply that certain practices are forbidden.

Hey! Cool ropeup. Drank lots of beer, hung out with charismatic cc.commies, met new cc.commies, got to ride in a Jag, got in a good mileage climbing day, drank lots of beer, shot a BB-gun, saw some cool slide shows. Thanks everybody! Can somebody tell me what happened at the end of Pax's slideshow though? I couldn't quite figure out the theme. Seemed like he was just running through random pictures from his harddrive. So I just went to sleep. I just needed to post something today so I could see the little cake thingy next to my name. Condo Corners is a fun pitch, and the Regular Route has a couple of scary ones. and , respectively.

To keep this from getting out of hand we'd better opt for torture at ALL of our prisons instead of just the secret ones.

Quick note about the TDI's and bio-diesel. The warranty is void if you use > 20% bio-diesel. So you probably can't use bio-diesel if you lease, and probably don't want to if you're buying new.

Wow! Thanks A note to Firefox users: You can get the URL's of the pictures you want to post by simply right clicking on the picture and selecting "Copy Image Location". This performs all the BS you need to do in Explorer (i.e. right-click, "properties", find URL, highlight, Copy) with two easy steps (right-click, Copy Image Location). Especially nice is that you're not required to highlight anything, a step that can get quite tedious. Now you've got the URL for the image on your clipboard and "Paste" or Ctrl-v will paste it wherever you want it.

Latona Pub corner of N 65th Street and Latona Ave.

Problem: With an increasingly unpopular and dangerous war, one has to be more stupid to volunteer for the Army. Solution: Remove restrictions on more stupid people volunteering. QED

I know you're probably all much more interested in the Congressional page scandal and the reports of Prez Bush's "relations" with the friendly creatures on his ranch... but more creeping opposition to Habeas Corpus this weekend. Navy fires lawyer who beat the Bush administration in Supreme Court over Habeas rights and for you media-bias types, here's the Fox News version, basically the same except for less quotes from supporters of the let-go lawyer.

OK another thing I could understand that people like about him. In fact, it seems like a good decision to me too (the swift response in Afghanistan). So I guess I now have two points of data of things where GWB is not a complete incompetent asshole. I remember when GWB was elected I thought, "No big deal. How bad can he be?" I was a little bummed that the environment candidate didn't make it, but he didn't even campaign on that so WTF. Initial couple of months were reasonable stuff. NCLB happened then I think, back when GWB was an ordinary president, probably listened to people, made compromises (NCLB was co-sponsored by Kennedy I believe), did not fuck things up. Then 9/11 happened. GWB invades Afghanistan. Good. Probably needed to be done. I was a little grumbly that this Republican was getting all these props for doing something anyone would do in his position, but whatever, can't really complain. THEN he got a big head. Started thinking he could do whatever the fuck he wanted, and the congress let him. Without constraint he has bungled one thing after another. When people started saying he was making noise about invading Iraq, I thought they were joking. I thought they were just the whacko extreme left wing. But no. Jesus christ! Us invading a sovereign country without direct provocation? The USA isn't supposed to do that, that's the Soviet Union's job. Fuckin' A, all downhill from there. Enron and CA energy crisis. Using that fiasco to support anti-environmental legislation. Tax cuts in a time of war and massive deficit spending. Blatant bad science propaganda tactics w.r.t. environmental legislation. Listening in on phone calls, massive surveillance databases on Americans without a warrant. Locking people up without due process, kidnapping and torturing people. Actually brazenly and openly supporting these horrific practices. Extreme incompetence and cronyism leading to horrible debacles in Katrina and Iraq. Where will it fucking end? Thank God he didn't succeed in diverting our Social security monies to Wall Street, though if it keeps going on like this the US Treasury may be no more solvent than gambling on stocks. So thank you for your responses to my question of, "name one good thing." It did make me remember the halcyon days of pre Iraq. Sorry, but I must now ask the question, "What has he done for us lately?" I posit that GWB has done NOTHING good for the last 4 years, ever since he got his big head from 9/11.

I think if you take him at his word, he has tried to do something. He has articulated that his strategy to combat terrorism is to foster Democracies. Sounds like a good idea on it's face. Too bad it's not working out though.

Thanks Climbingpanther, KK and Underworld for coming up with some reasons. No Child Left Behind seems like it could be a good thing. I guess the jury's still out as some claim it to be an "unfunded mandate", but perhaps that is just whiners wanting more federal $$. This seems like the answer closest to making me believe that every single thing Bush does may not be evil and/or incompetent. Cutting taxes is always nice, but to do it at a time when deficits are so high seems very shortsighted in my mind. I understand that proponents feel that it helps the economy and thus increases revenues, but so far that hasn't played out in the metric of our deficit numbers. No terrorist attacks since 9/11 is pretty good, but it is sort of like giving Clinton credit for his budget surplus, Bush Senior credit for the fall of the Berlin Wall, and Truman for victory in the Pacific. Underworld, it may be admirable that someone sticks to their guns. People always value consistency, but I personally feel it's overrated if it prevents one from being able to continually evaluate outside stimulus and to react. To be able react to a complex environment and unforseen problems is something that should not be discouraged. And, to dig deeper, is there anything Bush has done that YOU agree with?

WTF?! Here's an item from your list "President Bush speaks to Greek Community Leaders" Is that one of the things that you like about GW Bush? I'm asking for ONE THING that you can say that YOU think GW Bush did a good job. If you can support it with reasons that would be even better. I'm just trying to understand why everyone isn't totally pissed.

The bolts have been there since at least 1995, maybe longer than that.

I think 2nd pitch of RPM was rejuvenated from the dead by some serious scrubbing though. Apparently the guy thought he had a cool FA until he did some more research. Yes p2 RPM is cool. You can also avoid the crux roof and face by heading left and joining up with Remorse to keep it at 5.9. Also, there is a bolt anchor at the start, don't know when they appeared though.

chirp, What part of "every time you set out to climb" do you not understand? Just answer the question dammit

When the hell is rope up anyway. I thought it was Oct 14-15, but the full moon is Oct 7 according to my calendar.

Charlton Heston would

UW Rock pictures

I attended the gathering at the start of the march at the UW yesterday and there was one lady with a sign that made me think. Jim's commment above reminded me. The sign said, "name one good thing he's done". I don't know if Underworld attempted to address this. From my perspective his last sentence seems to be more of an apology than citing anything good about Bush. It seems to me that this has been a fairly reasonable discussion. Underworld seems to be upset about name-calling, but shit man, you've been around cc.com for ~700 posts. Don't you think this was a fairly reasonable discussion? Anyway, I'd just like to sincerely ask that lady's question to you folks. There seems to be a bunch of you in the discussion who are either against or definitely not for the ideas behind this protest (get Bush out, the world can't wait). Be brave in the face of these nasty liberal namecallers. Name one thing you think Bush has done right. I think that would be an interesting discussion. Just wondering if it's that you actually support Bush's policies, or if you like specific Democrat candidates less, or something else that's making you support him. To me it's unfathomable. I really can't think of one thing I support, and anybody who slogs through my posts understands there's a lot of stuff I don't like. You got this far. Educate me? I'd appreciate it. I won't namecall, but I can't vouch for everyone in the discussion.

If you want more routes to climb at Snow Creek Wall, I guess you could try to find an unclimbed line and go for it. However, looking at the guidebooks, it looks like there's not much unclimbed terrain up there. Thus, I'd suggest scrubbing some long forgotten classic and and replacing any the existing bolts with new fat ones. I doubt that would upset very many people. It was done with the second pitch of RPM and on Mary Jane Dihedral. I'd think a good candidate for refurbishment would be the 3rd pitch of RPM. Also, it might be cool if someone scrubbed and replaced bolts on those crazy runout chickenhead pitches to the right of Outer Space. Anybody got any other good refurbishment projects for Korrigan? Oh yeah, and you might reconsider the Bosch idea since it's probably illegal up there at SCW.