chucK

Hell, they'll be coming here and spreading throughout the western world sooner than that! US plans to take in 7,000 Iraqi refugees

You are right, if a Baptist group wanted to block out weekly time at a public pool, and you couldn't go there unless you agreed to get baptized, I think the Left would launch a stink, as they would if it was "Islam hour". I'm just saying if there was a designated "Women's hour" where modest women could swim free of real or imagined perverts. I don't think it'd be such a big deal. True, you might get some nutjob Men's rights headcase raising a stink and the ACLU would probably have no choice but to at least show support for his fight. Still don't get your conflation of anti-muslim sentiment with homophobia, but that's a minor point. And I agree that it would be less illogical to criticize someone's religious beliefs than it would assail their race, gender, or sexual preference.

You can easily bypass the lower part, which is proabably what you are referring to as the 500 feet of crap rock, by an easy but exposed ledge system. It dumps you right at the base of the slabs. And, yes, it is a wonderful solo, pretty easy to do as a 9-5'er from Seattle (in the summer, that is).

Talk about oversimplifying...you guys know what rightwing nutcase billboard with the Uncle Sam south of Centralia on I-5? Last time I was down there it said something to the effect of, "You want to know why your healthcare costs are skyrocketing? Think illegal aliens!" Uh huh. Lock that border tight as a drum and all our healthcare costs will go way down.

According to Al Gore your goal will probably be much more doable if you can just wait about 50 years. That will also give you time to cultivate more agave plants and lime trees. And I must say, all those statistics and figurin' is an impressive display of dicking around!

Conflation of critiques of Muslim ideas with homophobia? How was that managed? Must be an interesting twist of logic. I'm curious about this Washington swimming pool thing too, and why it should have the Left screaming. I see your point that it is a public institution that is catering to the wishes of religious people, but it seems like that could have easily been handled by calling it a "women only" swim hour instead of "devotion to Islam required". I guess you could now say that all males are wronged, but nobody seems to be bothered by segregated bathrooms. Why not segregate a public facility for an hour a week if there's the demand? Ermmm...I guess there would be no way of having it happen if it was a "blacks only" or "whites only" swim hour though eh...that's a bit different though, most people acknowledge that the genders are different and they have different desires and that sometimes there are good reasons to segregate the two. I don't think this is the common belief though with respect to races.

I want to start out with good posts there KK and JayB! Back to the spineless democrats. I think you guys are being a little harsh (not that I think they did right by any means). Remember how back then, EVERYBODY loved GWB or at least 60-70%. I mean, jeezus, most joe lunchbuckets and sally soccermoms were even backing the evil Yankees because of 9/11. The dems in the legislature knew that GWB was gonna invade Iraq whether or not they voted for the authorization, and I think it was reasonable to believe that there was a good chance we wouldn't have fucked up so bad and Saddam would be deposed, we'd be outa there, and we'd be blaming the dysfunctional Iraqis for all the chaos that "erupted", after we helped them out with their tyrant problem. Anyway any Democrat with any sort of possible contest in his/her district/state figured it would be political suicide to vote against the thing, and they caved. Also, they figured they could use the "authorization to bargains agressively, NOT declaration of war" thing for political cover. I wonder what would have happened has GWB gone to congress and asked for a declaration of war?

Red Rocks is a pretty large place. for a first timer, you can make it more comprehensible by thinking of it canyon by canyon instead of climb by climb. Getting a select guide (and asking for rec's on the web) is a good way to get a starting point for some classic climbs, then you can branch out if you're more adventurous. As Alpinedave said, there is this loop road thing that is a pain in the ass. It opens and closes basically with the sun, and you get a big ticket if you aren't out in time. Plus, it's a pain to drive around, as it's windy and long and if you're a law-abiding type of guy, a uniform 20mph speed limit. It's a one-way road, and unless you are going to climb at the sport areas, most of your destinations are going to be a long way down the road. Oh, and if you're on a budget, it costs $$ to enter. Anyway, one very good thing you can do is get a late exit permit from the ranger station. I think all you need to do is give them a call and leave your car info on an answering machine. It'll give you a couple more hours, and allow you to be somewhere cooler than a road or parking lot when the sun sets in the desert. Some canyons can be accessed without bothering with the loop road. Black Velvet Canyon and First Canyon are a couple, and you can also access Oak Creek Canyon by walking in from the highway. It's probably about a 1/2 hour longer hike from the highway, but on the way in you save 1/2 hour of driving on the loop road. Frigid Air Buttress (Icebox(?) Canyon) is pretty good. It and the other stuff in Icebox will be a very good choice if Red Rocks is either hot or crowded or both. FAB is completely in the shade by late morning. Black Orpheus (Oak Creek Canyon) is much more exposed to the sun, and will be best if your partners are cool with simuling a long stretch of 4th, low 5th. All the popular stuff in Oak Creek is in the sun. Epinephrine (Black Velvet Canyon) should not be missed. One of the most fun climbs I've ever done. Contrary to popular belief, it's not difficult to knock it off in a relatively easy day (< 10 hrs CTC), if you've got a strong partner and you're not held up by other parties. Probably want to know how to chimney too . I think BVC gets shade in the afternoon. Also in BVC are a bunch of cool climbs on Black Velvet Wall. It's usually crowded so you miss out on the wilderness experience, but it's popular for a reason. You probably won't find a lineup on Refried Brains, which is really cool and in your stated difficulty range. One more climb I really enjoyed there was Black Dagger (Juniper Canyon). It's a good long hike in there, but that keeps the crowds down, and it's just an excellent six moderate pitches stacked right on top of the other, and with an easy descent. Make sure you get a late exit permit for this one due to the long approach and return. One good idea is to plan an area with alternate choices in case your first choice is bunged up. Frogland, Solar Slab, Cat in the Hat, Tunnel Vision, Crimson Chrysalis, Dark Shadows are all fun but will have very good chance of holding conga lines.

update on original topic five starving people denied jobs

Yep. I'd agree and add that it seems that whatever goals they have been pursuing in Iraq and the middle east they have totally screwed them up (unless anarchy, chaos, lots of death was their goal all along).

Hey PP, Sorry I didn't reply to your post in that other thread. It didn't seem like you were asking me any questions. I thought it was great that you actually answered and I thank you for it. I was totally unaware that my lack of reply somehow breached decorum. I'll try not to make that mistake in the future.

You've advocated eliminating Social Security, i.e. removing governmental safety nets. The above story is a real-life reductio ad absurdum example of how the free market would handle the helpless indigent. What do you think we should do about these indigent invalids who end up at hospitals that can't pay for their care, but who will die without it? Whose problem is someone who's opted out of Social Security (your previously-stated druther) and ended up destitute, starving and dying?

It's the Kaskadykojak solution to reform welfare and big government. Though often mischaracterized as "kill the poor", proponents like to think of it as "setting them adrift".

Hear hear!!! Grape nuts (with yogurt, not milk), toss in a couple of raisins and if you're feeling really fancy, some nuts and/or fresh fruit. Stuff'll stick to yer ribs and keep you going as well as a plate of eggs and sausage, but doesn't make you want to take a nap right after breakfast. The really cool part about Grape Nuts though is that it is BARLEY, you know, the stuff they make (good) beer out of.

You guys are getting ahead of yourselves (or the country anyway). Last polls in mid-January had from 34 to 41 percent of the people saying that they still considered that going into Iraq was the right thing to do!

:tup: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Fall Fashion Preview!

nice butt shot

Hey, I see you are posing a serious question about something which sounds important to you. I have a question back at you. Why would anyone want to discuss a serious issue of your choosing on this board when you have consistently crapped all over other people's serious topics with your dimwitted banter even when they asked you to stop?

Wow! You sure read a lot into my questioning of your manhood.

Whoa, you really are a chick aren't you?

Fuck man, if you were given a choice between a cut on your scalp and a piece of flesh sliced off of your dick, which would you choose???! KKK are you really a chick in disquise? If you can't see how the head wound is far preferable, you must be missing something. Many sects of Christianity endorse bodily mutilation, and it's totally fucked up mutilation too. Jesus!

From today in Iraq: "We will not accept Iran to use Iraq to attack the American forces," al-Maliki said Wednesday in an exclusive interview with CNN. "We don't want the American forces to take Iraq as a field to attack Iran or Syria," he added. Uh oh! Sounds like al-Maliki is not down with our administration's oft pronounced goal of "fighting them over there [iraq] so we don't have to fight them here [u.S.]" Maybe we should just leave and let that ungrateful SOB do his own dirty work!

Jay, That book sounds very interesting. I am going to check it out. Thanks for the tip. Funny, I read the NY Times review of it and one of the things he said was, "Great Stuff!", a definite cc.com JayB'ism. Are you Dexter Filkins?

You saw Annie Hall right? (paraphrasing from memory) Split screen husband (Woody Allen) and wife (Dianne Keaton) at their respective therapist's offices Husband's therapist: How often do you sleep together?? Husband: Almost never! Maybe three times per week. Wife's therapist: Do you have sex often? Wife: Constantly! Three times per week. Moral: Perceptions differ. Concrete numbers are universal.