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OK, you know I'm not whining here, because I love you guys, and all that but all SUCK . Well maybe not . Also , are pretty cool, and of course I love the and the kicks butt, and well I guess is an improvement. But all those other ones are gay. And I don't know what to say about

check this shit out. There's some nice shots posted there.

Hey so I was thinking, if I was taking a newbie out to like Index or somewhere else cool and I wanted to do a little unrehearsed fall so as to gauge the consequences of a fall in a little less forgiving area of the climb, where would be a good place? Gotta be somewhere with a clean fall and good landing right below a gear placement. I guess it'd preferably be an easy climb too, since you'll be hoping to drag the newbie up it. I guess Ultrabrutal is the only one I can think of at Index. Castle Rock? Squamish? Someplace else you'd be with a newbie?

Bull F**kin shit dumbass. His own party took him down and climbed over his body, because they were "worried" that those un-PC comments might hurt the grand old party. HAH! HAW! Buncha PC fags!!

Yeah Col, cool photo huh. Greg, I just find it funny because conservatives in general seem to be so proud of NOT being overly concernced about PC'ness. But when Sen. Lott makes a slip of the tongue that was twisted all out of proportion, all the repubs are jumping over themselves to "sacrifice" Lott for the good of the party. I guess you're right. It's not really pantywaistness. Underneath it all it's really merciless power grab but to do so they must portray themselves as PC pantywaists. That's what's so funny.

I think it is funny that the republicans are being such PC pantywaists

If you want Grape Nuts with less sugar, try not putting any milk on them!! Seriously now, Grape nuts have a ton of sugar? And to the wife who is looking for something for her husband...unless you've got some sort of discretionary fund, i.e. some money that is not his too, why waste yours and his money by buying him something he doesn't want? I mean, it's fun being surprised by something you really like, but the downside is is that it sucks to get something totally stupid and totally expensive from your wife that you are basically paying for, but cannot take it back or else you'll hurt her feelings. Buy him a carabiner.

Here's the big version. The dirt on the scanner really shows up well on this one

I take it that it will be at the Big Time for those of us who show around 10 pm (if it is still it after 10) ?

Awesome! A brilliant webpage tour-de-force!!!! Thanks Phil, you ROCK

It must mean that you started with 20 stars!

Everybody in this thread gets a from me. Well, except for Caveman , since I had already given him the . So anyway, I think you should all give me 5 stars now. Is there anyway to update your old ratings?

F**king SMOOT!

Black Flag- Damaged II I don't even care about self-destruction anymore, WHAT'S THE USE!!

Bolt Clipper Bolt Clipper (and others), If you really do regret something you wrote, you can edit it away using the "edit" button. You can replace your former message with the apology.

I don't think this is true at all. Our government is probably up there as one of the older. Certainly older than all of our current enemies.

So E-Rock can't get the butt lips clean?

Material Breach ____ of Terror No Fly Zone

After much consideration, the winner is.... First pitch of Outer Space handcrack (pedestal to Library Ledge). It's perfect hands and steep, a full ropelength, though quite moderate. It's only minus is the fact that you could probably climb the whole thing without a single jam by using the chickenheads, but I think this is a list for crack lovers. What crack lover is going to try to climb that thing without jamming? But the big tiebreaker over other fine submissions here is that this one is snaffle approved !!!!

Alex, This is from the article you linked Why so much force on the top piece? Because the top piece experiences 2 forces: The impace force of the climber's fall, and The force that the belayer can apply with the belay device If you run the rope through the anchor, that is the top piece. You will get more force on the anchor, but less on the belayer. That would have probably avoided the leg-breaking in the introductory anecdote. So in this case clipping it through your anchor with a quickdraw probably would have helped. However, if the belay anchor was shaky, there is a slight chance that it was strong enough to hold the force of the fall (which was attenuated by using up some energy snapping some bones) , but that it was not strong enough to hold 1.6 times the force. If that was the case, then running the rope through the anchor would have killed both those guys (and maybe you if you were in the fall line). Paul makes a good point, which I alluded to in my previous post. You can make an independent anchor (i.e. first piece on climb, Pope's "frank nut"). That piece will experience the multiplied force, but if it blows you still have the anchor. That works fine and is the best option, IF you have another (good) placement nearby. OK lets use this scenario: You've just topped out off the Outer Space handcrack. You placed all your gear that would fit in the little crack (.5 Camalots +/-) above and are forced to belay your second anchored only to that spindly little, quickly dieing, tree. Do you a) Run the rope up through the one sling around that tree, or b) Snug yourself up to the "anchor", set your feet on some footholds, point yourself in the probable direction of the fall, and belay directly off your dee-vice? My answer is b) because I am going to be able to hold part or all of the force of a fall with just my footholds and the friction of my butt wedged in the crack. I am being part of the anchor until I get totally pulled off my stance. If you choose a), then you have to trust that the tree can hold both you and the climber if he falls. Once the second turns into the leader, you still should be in this "ready to catch, pointed down" position until the leader gets a piece in (the now cleaned .5 camalot).

Alex you are wrong. The reason it is more comfortable getting pulled toward the anchor is because you don't have any weight on you. If you are not holding up this force (you're not even holding your own weight right?) then what is? It is the anchor. When you do a slingshot belay the anchor is holding both of you . When you belay directly then the anchor is possibly holding both of you eventually if the belayer goes for a ride, but often the belayer can do some holding of their own. You should have a bombproof anchor or independent anchor when you do the slingshot belay. I don't know what relevance this net force of zero thing has. I haven't read it very closely though I guess. Surely you're not saying that the net force on a slingshot belay anchor is zero?

Nobody's yet mentioned Sloe Children, Rattletale p2, Apron Strings, and dun dun DUN... Air Guitar Edited to add: Damnation at Castle Rock

Good day for it! Probably about 2.5 hours of light left!