num1mc

You need to get a grasp on reality. While I don't agree with Jim Wickwire and John Roskelly, they are welcome to have their own opinion on NOCA without me crying about a gross betrayal. They obviously feel the the North Cascades warrant this extra protection, and that the increased bureaucracy is a worthy price to pay. So far in this thread you've accused the NPS of trying to reinvigorate Agenda 66, sell the place off to the concessioners, and lock up Liberty Bell. Some of your claims are mutually impossible. You also seem to forget that there are places that the NPS has bent over backwards to accommodate climbers, chief among these is Yosemite. All other back country users need overnight wilderness permits for camping, this is not enforced on the big wall climbers what so ever. Bolts are allowed to be placed by community rules, and even fixed rope shit shows by Chongo, the late Dan Osmand ,Dean Potter and slack liners are allowed. Your shotgun approach is just plain stupid and hysterical

Buck, You brought this upon yourself by not throwing the cam as far as you could over your shoulder. Everyone else comes off as a douche bag, because they are

They're still pissing their pants in Mountlake Terrace WHISKY TANGO FOXTROT OVER!!!!!!

Sound like the NPS needs to talk to you about what you did

Lib-tard is an exceedingly boring term, and I get tired of it. But I have seen the "n" word used by several posters, and when I brought this up to the mods and admin, I was told it is best that I contact the offender poster myself by PM. I know for a fact that they then complained and gossiped about me and my grumbling about the use of racially offensive terms on CC, but left it at that. The issue was me, not the offending posters.

What's the return policy?

Nice job, you dodged the tyranny of the masses corner.

The fact that the majority of the users "feel" that stocking should continue shouldn't be part of the equation. I have a minimal opinion on stocking, but after reading on NWH why stocking should be discontinued, I appreciate those reasons. A salander may think you're not a nice person

That is sometimes my feeling

There were extensive discussions at NWHikers regarding this very subject and the NOCO expansion several years ago. NWHikers is very pro- stocking, and the admin and his clique are members of the Trailblazers and such. Me personally, I would not in anyway base my gross opinion on NOCO expansion on high lakes stocking, but to each his own. There are persuasive arguments of how stocking these formerly barren lakes which are often bereft of food is not a good thing. What I mainly took away from the conversation was that the pro-stockers were a bunch of Branch Davidian-Amway freaks. The very same Sandy McKean referenced in your link sent me a series of PM's, about the subject, finally accusing me of being the type that would support Osama bin Laden over the USA. All because of milk jugs of fish.

It's time for a retrospective of this important piece of alpine history, and how it changed e-climbing forever. http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/465693/1

It's like the mafia, there's no leaving

Says the guy who spends all day making friends in Spray

You seem to have your mind made up that NOCA wants to Coney Island-ize what ever lands they can get from both the USFS and themselves in their National Recreation Areas. Don't you get it? The NPS already has most of this land under their control and "ownership" in the Lake Chelan and Ross Lake National Recreational Areas. If anything, there have been complaints of the NPS squeezing business, concessions and run-of-the-mill tourism out in favor of preservation and wilderness with or without the capital W. So I think you would best serve yourself to study the issue and realize this Mission 66 windmill you're tilting at probably doesn't exist, and frame your objections more reasonably. I would think the cases of the MRNP West Side road, the Duckabush road and Enchanted Valley chalet on ONP and the Suitable road would serve as better examples of what the future may hold than what you see from the entrenched Delaware North in Yosemite.

I would be most concerned about bureaucracy and the NPS mindset.

This is the definitive map of the boundaries that have been in place since 1987. The USFS chooses to publish crappy and fuzzy maps instead of this clear work. https://fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5428875.pdf

While at Three O'Clock during the middle of a big fine weather window in 1990, saw a big ripper come off the very upper North Ridge of Exo

One was a dudette

There are many reasons to be concerned about expanding NOCA, but I don't think your post hits any of them, and is wrong on several points. 1) Arches was established prior to Wilderness designation of it's undeveloped lands. 2) Most concerns about NOCA expansion revolve around more rules and less access, the opposite of what you fear. 3) The NPS is no longer following it's road and lodge building craze of Mission 66. It seems unlikely that the lands will be commoditized or "sold" if NOCA expands. 4) All of this seems to be independent of NP demographics, and in fact contrary to some of it.

What does this have to do with cutting trees you don't own, without permission, from private property?

Pointy Leepers were the standard for many years

[img:left]http://www.kansascity.com/entertainment/ent-columns-blogs/stargazing/3dc80i/picture698407/ALTERNATES/FREE_960/NakedAfraid%20(2).jpg[/img]

[video:youtube]

The Mountaineers have clearly supported AALPS in the near past, so these allegations of lying are not true. https://www.mountaineers.org/mountaineer-magazine/2011/jul-aug-2011 http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/parents-of-north-cascades-park-want-it-to-grow/

Well, the worst could be inclusion of the western half of the Libery Bell massif into the NPS along with Wilderness designation