num1mc

I remember bumping into old Larry, and his wars against REI and the NPS. Funny thing is that back then, MRNP could refuse to give you a permit for Rainier if they didn't like your ice axe, and the Mountaineers had (according to Larry) 400+ Basic students. http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/blog/mountain-safety-research-newsletter-archives/

Uh Oh, what to do now Eric, this one has TR's! The "name" thing's still an issue maybe tho... d And he's the god father to my step dog to boot.

Without knowing who you are you have no point because who the point is coming from has everything to do with perspective. I don't know if you work for the NPS or you're a 14 year old girl from the Philippines. And yes I have made some personal attacks here however I state my name right after them. I'm not cowering like a total pussy behind my screen name. I climb in this town and many climbers here know me, they see my actual face in trip reports and at the base of cliffs. I walk straight into the wilderness permit building at the NCNP and they know who I am. If you'd like to be part of the conversation let us know who you are, then I'll address your points. Unless you're a wanted felon or don't believe in what you're saying, sign your name 1MC. I would think that a little math looking at my posts which go back to 2001 would point to the unlikeliness of me being a 14 year old girl. And I think that my English is good enough that it could be assumed that I grew up in the USA. None of the rest matters. You have asked why I am hesitant about the NPS expanding, and I answered you in about two sentences. Your reasons are accusatory and somewhat specious. It would be nice if your reasons were more cogent. I don't get the chest puffery against me, Wickwire or Roskelly.

None of that has anything to do with my points that it is unfair for your to hysterically attack Jim Wickwire and John Roskelly for voicing their opinion. This is America you know. You then attack the AAC for things that they are not involved in. You then attack the Mountaineers based solely on their involvement several years ago, and on the stance or their Conservation committee. And you attack the the NPS based on this old Mission 66 model that is decades in the past and is no longer a realistic concern. So instead of addressing any of this, you demand a trip report and CV from me. I suggest instead that you calmly look at the issues of expanding NOCA and pare your concerns down to reasonable ones likely to garner support, and not running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

You need to get a grasp on reality. While I don't agree with Jim Wickwire and John Roskelly, they are welcome to have their own opinion on NOCA without me crying about a gross betrayal. They obviously feel the the North Cascades warrant this extra protection, and that the increased bureaucracy is a worthy price to pay. So far in this thread you've accused the NPS of trying to reinvigorate Agenda 66, sell the place off to the concessioners, and lock up Liberty Bell. Some of your claims are mutually impossible. You also seem to forget that there are places that the NPS has bent over backwards to accommodate climbers, chief among these is Yosemite. All other back country users need overnight wilderness permits for camping, this is not enforced on the big wall climbers what so ever. Bolts are allowed to be placed by community rules, and even fixed rope shit shows by Chongo, the late Dan Osmand ,Dean Potter and slack liners are allowed. Your shotgun approach is just plain stupid and hysterical

Buck, You brought this upon yourself by not throwing the cam as far as you could over your shoulder. Everyone else comes off as a douche bag, because they are

They're still pissing their pants in Mountlake Terrace WHISKY TANGO FOXTROT OVER!!!!!!

Sound like the NPS needs to talk to you about what you did

Lib-tard is an exceedingly boring term, and I get tired of it. But I have seen the "n" word used by several posters, and when I brought this up to the mods and admin, I was told it is best that I contact the offender poster myself by PM. I know for a fact that they then complained and gossiped about me and my grumbling about the use of racially offensive terms on CC, but left it at that. The issue was me, not the offending posters.

What's the return policy?

Nice job, you dodged the tyranny of the masses corner.

The fact that the majority of the users "feel" that stocking should continue shouldn't be part of the equation. I have a minimal opinion on stocking, but after reading on NWH why stocking should be discontinued, I appreciate those reasons. A salander may think you're not a nice person

That is sometimes my feeling

There were extensive discussions at NWHikers regarding this very subject and the NOCO expansion several years ago. NWHikers is very pro- stocking, and the admin and his clique are members of the Trailblazers and such. Me personally, I would not in anyway base my gross opinion on NOCO expansion on high lakes stocking, but to each his own. There are persuasive arguments of how stocking these formerly barren lakes which are often bereft of food is not a good thing. What I mainly took away from the conversation was that the pro-stockers were a bunch of Branch Davidian-Amway freaks. The very same Sandy McKean referenced in your link sent me a series of PM's, about the subject, finally accusing me of being the type that would support Osama bin Laden over the USA. All because of milk jugs of fish.

Ah, those remind me of the halcyon days of the Carter Admin

It's time for a retrospective of this important piece of alpine history, and how it changed e-climbing forever. http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/465693/1

It's like the mafia, there's no leaving

Says the guy who spends all day making friends in Spray

You seem to have your mind made up that NOCA wants to Coney Island-ize what ever lands they can get from both the USFS and themselves in their National Recreation Areas. Don't you get it? The NPS already has most of this land under their control and "ownership" in the Lake Chelan and Ross Lake National Recreational Areas. If anything, there have been complaints of the NPS squeezing business, concessions and run-of-the-mill tourism out in favor of preservation and wilderness with or without the capital W. So I think you would best serve yourself to study the issue and realize this Mission 66 windmill you're tilting at probably doesn't exist, and frame your objections more reasonably. I would think the cases of the MRNP West Side road, the Duckabush road and Enchanted Valley chalet on ONP and the Suitable road would serve as better examples of what the future may hold than what you see from the entrenched Delaware North in Yosemite.

I would be most concerned about bureaucracy and the NPS mindset.

This is the definitive map of the boundaries that have been in place since 1987. The USFS chooses to publish crappy and fuzzy maps instead of this clear work. https://fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5428875.pdf

While at Three O'Clock during the middle of a big fine weather window in 1990, saw a big ripper come off the very upper North Ridge of Exo

One was a dudette

There are many reasons to be concerned about expanding NOCA, but I don't think your post hits any of them, and is wrong on several points. 1) Arches was established prior to Wilderness designation of it's undeveloped lands. 2) Most concerns about NOCA expansion revolve around more rules and less access, the opposite of what you fear. 3) The NPS is no longer following it's road and lodge building craze of Mission 66. It seems unlikely that the lands will be commoditized or "sold" if NOCA expands. 4) All of this seems to be independent of NP demographics, and in fact contrary to some of it.

What does this have to do with cutting trees you don't own, without permission, from private property?