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Why aren't there very many black climbers?


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I feel like i should respond to some of the confusion my comment caused


ChrisT, I think it's great your algebra teacher took you guys to yosemite! At least some influential adult exposed you to it! Even camping in truckee counts as a start for loving the outdoors mtns or not!


RobBob you have a point. I can't say that I'm truly offended by trasks b/c his comments don't affect me directly. It's a personally belief that when someone says something like that it should be called out.


trask-it's a shame you can't see that the topic of the thread was a worthy discussion point. I can respect and intellectual difference of opinions but anytime someone reduces the argument to name-calling and insults based on some preconceived notion I'm going to call B.S. Fine you disagree but isn't there a better way for you to express that. Of my friends, acquaintenances, colleauges and neighbors who are black , non of them partakes in crack and none of them climb. If you're going to toss out a glaring offensive comment, don't act distraught when someone points it. Now you can kiss my lilly white arse. If you feel the need to insult me further take it to PM

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I merely made a generalization, based on statistics. Unless someone lives in a cocoon, how can one argue the inner-city facts. There are thousands, possibly millions of very bright and successful "blacks" in the United States. There are also many more living in poverty, absorbed in drugs, prostitution and crime. Look at the prison system and tell me otherwise.

Sure, we all have our, "Oh, my best friend is black and I take offense to your comment." smirk.gif

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Minx, I admire your tenacity, but I am warning you that righteousness and/or being right will get ya nowhere with this crowd. You are not the first person to try, and by acknowledging your affiliation with the female gender, well, let's just say you're in for a hazing treat extraordinaire.


Put on your Nomex suit, 'cuz you' a-gonna get flamed!!

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to butt my nose in where it dose not belong I would like to point something out here. I am not totaly sure what trask ment to say with his comment but because I wasn't looking for something offensive, what I read was that taking drugs is a risk taking venture. So if people of a particulare culture consider it "crazy" to climb a mountain why would the same (generalization here) culture find it more acceptable to use drugs?



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a) allison-Thanks for the warning. Problem is that I don't care if I get flamed for that one. Guess I'll have to suck it up and take it. (anyone got a fire-extinguisher handy?) Maybe I did come across more righteous than i meant to...oops! Guess we all have our petpeeve issues.


b) Muffy- believe me I wasn't looking to be offended. I was offended after reading the remark.


c) Trask-Lets see some stats. I'm not going to argue that the prison system has different demographics than society at as a whole. We could debate the reason for that. What percentage of the african-american population lives in poverty? I know it's higher than caucasions but I don't think it's the majority. As for the best friend analogy...the point i was trying to make is that it's not just one example. My view is based on experience w/a larger group than one. Hey my neighbor is a b!tch but that doesn't mean she does crack. (maybe she'd be nicer if she did!)


d) pardon all those typos and punctuation errors. i haven't had my coffee yet!

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Its an interesting question, and I appreciate the honest reflection and experience many have brought to this thread. Its also the sort of question that the worst aspect of PC orthodoxy tends to quash: examination of differences rather than glorifying commonality. I know that scientists who want to study biological differences in gender and how that affects ability and behavior have a hard time getting funding because the "acceptable" answer is already known: women can do anything men can do, you sexist bastard. Try getting a study on the effects of altitude and aridity on different ethnic populations funded.


As to the actual question at hand, I have no insights outside the already mentioned anectodal observation: there aren't very many, are there?


And Trask, having read your posts for quite awhile, I don't believe you are a racist, but recounting sterotypes just to stir the pot is better done in Spray. Surveys have shown that in terms of percentage, white youth are much more likely to do drugs than black youth. I don't recall the exact study, but as I recall this was true across the board, even examining each substance individually. Common knowledge is often wrong.

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Okay, I come back to this thread and see that minx basically restated the same thing that I reacted to before:


RobBob you have a point. I can't say that I'm truly offended by trasks b/c his comments don't affect me directly. It's a personally belief that when someone says something like that it should be called out. ....

trask...If you're going to toss out a glaring offensive comment, don't act distraught when someone points it


Girlie, you didn't get what I said. If you think that I meant that since you weren't in the group refered to then you weren't offended, that is NOT what I meant.


What I meant was that you are clearly a member of the United States of the Offended. Or the US of PC. Since when was any group garanteed freedom from jibes about stereotypes? And isn't humor the way we are s'posed to deal with a lot of life's problems? If you put trask's oneline smartass comment in context with his normal stuff, it doesn't look cruel and offensive to me.


There is clearly a double-standard in this country about which groups can say what about the others. I'll bet that if the remark were directed at some other social groups, you wouldn't have felt the need to "call trask out." We can argue all day long about where you draw the line between what is meant as a slam, what is hurtful, etc., etc., but the bottom line is, everybody needs to lighten up with the PC crap. It leads people to believe that they are "victims," which is a pussified way to go through life. Those of us who grimly "call out" every comment are only helping to make this happen. Hell, just about every one of us is here in the New World because of an ancestor's hard-luck story. mad.gif

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I've thought about this before too. I've seen people of various different minority groups hiking frequently, climbing less often, and it's almost never blacks. A group w/ the American Alpine Institute or some such group on the south side of Baker had one black guy probably high school aged in their whole group. Saw a black guy hiking up to Pyramid Lake (N. Cascades Hwy) another time. And I vaguely remember being in a little cafe in Pt. Townsend, there was a black guy in there talking to a friend of his and I think he had just got done w/ a major jaunt on the PCT. The only other time was one summer I worked at a camp and we took the older kids (approx. 14-16) beginning rock climbing on some rotten crags east of Enumclaw. A lot of the kids were from the inner city and a lot of them were black. Some of them wouldn't even do it. Most of them tried, they did fine but got pretty freaked out when it was time to get lowered off from the top. It was interesting cuz some of these kids were pretty tough and street wise but you get them out of their element and they were very uncomfortable.


Anyway, it just seems like it takes a shift in ideology. There's no reason blacks can't climb, hike, backpack, whatever. Before there was Tiger Woods you probably didn't see too many black people golfing (other than NBA players in the off season). I bet that changed some peoples way of thinking. Before Venus and Serena Williams starting ruling the womens pro tennis circuit I bet you didn't see too many blacks playing tennis. I bet there's a whole lot more young blacks playing tennis now. It just has to start somewhere.

Edited by nolanr
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