Removed

[lukeh]

Edited March 8, 2015 by lukeh

[Water]

throw that damn video back up, it was awesome. don't need no stinkin' 15 second'er.

 

 

 

[lukeh]

thanks Water - fixed it

[cdrbond007]

Wow, that video is rad! Can't believe you were able to fly it with that wind...I was up on the Squak that day and had to retreat less than 100' from the top of Sherman. My cheeks were flapping, crawling on all fours with my axe and still felt like I was gonna be carried right off the top! That was nuts.

[pcg]

I have to agree – very cool video. Not just the scenery, but the video quality itself – very well executed Luke. You have a real talent for photography and videography. What you create is beautiful.

 

This is why I’m torn about telling you I’m very disappointed to see this. The reason is simple – I think the sight and sound of drones are invasive and violate the very nature of the place where you took this one. I think assuming that what you do with a drone doesn’t spoil something for other people that might be around is shortsighted. Maybe you think on one else was around except for you and your friends and you are probably right – this time. But this is where it begins. Please give this some thought before you do this again.

 

[lukeh]

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1052652

[diepj]

Is that supposed to be a response to the question of the appropriateness of drones in the backcountry? Just because someone else can/does have an impact doesn't mean it is right. It also doesn't mean every other user group should automatically be allowed the same. That's a race to the bottom.

 

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on the issue, but it is a discussion that needs to happen within the climbing community and out society at large.

 

For now I am glad they are rare and unusual sights - I don't expect it to stay that way and I do wonder what it will mean for the outdoor and wilderness experience.

[JasonG]

Huh? Scurlock's plane is just another drone?

 

The Man doesn't think so.

 

Nice video BTW.

[lukeh]

No, it means I'm grateful for the beautiful and unique perspective aerial photography can provide of these mountains I love so much. i've been inspired by Scurlock's photos of some of my favorite peaks for years.

Airplanes are a way to achieve this perspective, they aren't invisible or silent.

Last year I charted a JetRanger to fly over the North Cascades for an upcoming film I'm creating to pair with my time-lapse footage. It was the experience of a lifetime for me and a chance to see a lot of these mountains I've climbed with new eyes. There are many ways to gain these perspectives now.

There's a difference between some oblivious a-hole fucking around with a toy and someone trying to pay homage to places they respect and regard as special or sacred even.

 

 

 

[Andesite]

There's a difference between some oblivious a-hole fucking around with a toy and someone trying to pay homage to places they respect and regard as special or sacred even.

 

Perhaps the difference is in your mind. From a third party's perspective, the a-hole's and the OP's drones sound the same, look the same, and violate the same prohibitions against mechanicals in wilderness areas. You think your intent makes you an exception. It doesn't.

[Jason4]

Wasn't this drone flight within the boundaries of the National Rec Area? The same area that is usually a snowmobile playground if there was actually snow at the trailhead? This shouldn't be a problem, Baker is hardly remote. I'd be more disappointed if I were 20 miles in and getting buzzed by a drone.

[Choada_Boy]

Insane Personal Justifications abound. I bit my tongue on this one until the IPJs started coming in from the OP, unsurprisingly.

 

Drones suck ass, I don't give a f*ck what the rationale is for using them in the back country, on a popular route on a popular mountain, so a person can post yet another video to Youtube and count how many views it gets. They are just another symptom of the disease of consumerist narcissism that can infect a person in this "digital age". It's sad to see this happening in the mountains.

 

Can I bring my boom box and blast it, because I'm a musician, and that's how I choose to celebrate my time in and worship MY mountains, by cranking Slayer, f*ck you if you have a problem with it?

 

I am no one special, and I deserve no special dispensation due to my claims of being a "skilled artist".

 

I go outside to stand there and look at the views with only the sound of Nature in my ears, not the sounds of some disrespectful and selfish asshole playing with his stupid toy to make yet another dime a dozen mediocre Youtube video.

 

My $0.02..

[JasonG]

Yep, the drones are cool in the Rec. area as are sleds.

 

I was just getting at that planes are allowed to fly over wilderness areas while drones are not. I feel this is a good distinction, but you're right that they aren't silent.

[Andesite]

Wasn't this drone flight within the boundaries of the National Rec Area?

 

You are correct. This appears to have been shot outside the boundaries of the Wilderness Area. I forgot about that National Rec Area wedge on the south side of Baker.

[Devin27]

There is also a big difference though between a drone and a plane in terms of frequency of occurrence in the wilderness going into the future. Airplanes cost a lot and require training and certifications to operate. That's the reason we don't have 100 airplanes circling every volcano every weekend. Drones are only going to get cheaper and easier to use over the next 10 years and with the newer versions that can automatically track a person without manual control, they will only get more and more common in the outdoors

 

I love watching the videos and this one is great, but don't think I would like a drone buzzing around my head while i'm climbing in the North Cascades.

[lukeh]

Definitely really surprised at the controversy around this, especially in a non-NPS, snowmobile stomping ground where anyone could also charter a noisy plane for less than the cost of a UAV and fly over any mountain here. Not my intention to ruffle feathers, I've mainly posted here to share with anyone interested in conditions and what I considered to be interesting visuals. I've removed the report.

 

I'm not really up for engaging with hostile strangers, but respect that everyone has a right to their opinion and people have strong feelings about their relationship with the wilderness.

Edited February 27, 2015 by lukeh

[JasonG]

You're right Luke, TRs aren't the place for this debate, and you were well within the law. You shouldn't feel the need to remove the video.

 

I started a thread over in access issues.

[dougd]

I'm not really up for engaging with hostile strangers, but respect that everyone has a right to their opinion and people have strong feelings about their relationship with the wilderness.

 

Well said.

 

Luke, sometimes it doesn't take much around here. I hope you keep posting, whatever it is.

 

d

[lukeh]

Thanks Jason and Doug.

[Fairweather]

You're right Luke, TRs aren't the place for this debate, and you were well within the law. You shouldn't feel the need to remove the video.

 

I started a thread over in access issues.

 

Good point regarding usage in this non-wilderness area. Drones buzzing around anywhere are a difficult issue to sort out. First off, why are they even called drones? Are they autonomous(yet)? Until then, they're just toys. Got a motor-drive on your SLR? Bound to annoy Harvey's ghost if he hears it. Anyhow, I'm not sure why these gadgets raise such hackles--for now, anyhow. Still, I can see a day when the big-hat tools at a place like NCNP use and/or are replaced with autonomous ranger drones , ya know, to make sure the peeps aren't hiking without a permit n' all.

 

Luke, you should have left the video up. I enjoyed it.