genepires Posted September 23, 2001 Posted September 23, 2001 Just came back from icicle creek and I discovered many missing hangers at both clamshell cave and barny's rubble. All of Barny's rubble hangers are missing. (that's four stations) About half of clamshell cave's hangers are gone too and the only ones that are still there are the ones that were apoxied. Does anyone have a idea why this is happening? (something about the fire?) If you are going to icicle bring either hangers or stoppers for the anchors. (don't forget the nuts for the studs too) Quote
Peter_Puget Posted September 23, 2001 Posted September 23, 2001 Are the nuts still on the bolts? Would it be possible to get on a route and find yourself in a dangerous situation due to missing hangers suddenly being encountered by surprise? Quote
Drederek Posted September 24, 2001 Posted September 24, 2001 Just got home from a great weekend in the icicle. Went to Clamshell Cave to do the routes I missed the first time and got to the top of the retrobolted TR to find no bolts or hangers, just holes! A toprope with bolts and no anchor. Further exploration revealed missing hangers on top of 3 other climbs. It was easy enough to setup gear anchors on top of these climbs but certainly not what I expected to find after climbing there just a month or so ago. The bolts and nuts are just sticking up out of the rock like little mushrooms. Is someone replacing these with chains? Just wanted to let people know of a hazard. It was not dangerous, just a pain. Went over the log bridge to Dog Dome and the anchors were intact. Quote
hikerwa Posted September 24, 2001 Posted September 24, 2001 Yeah, I saw it too. Went up to clamshell cave, Barney's Rubble and Roto-Wall, TR hangers missing, the large boulder at clamshell was also missing hangers. I also saw that there were at least four more chopped leaving large holes on top of 8-mile also. Some of the bolts ate still usable it looks like, but this lis kinda lame, chopping bolts on routes that have been TR practice grounds for over 30 years... That sucks. sean Quote
viktor Posted September 24, 2001 Posted September 24, 2001 I saw a large camo army truck at both Barneys and parked by clamshell in the last week. There was a bunch of commando types in camo outfits at Barneys. I wonder if our comrades-in-arms know something. Maybe they're gonna rappel into Afghanistan. Whoever is responsible is either a total moron or just an asshole, or both. Quote
Beck Posted September 24, 2001 Posted September 24, 2001 Was just up in the canyon this last weekend as well, looking to develop a tick list for this next weekend's climbing fest and discovered the same - some MORONS chopped bolts off top rope belay anchors on lots of rock, even up to clamshell cave where two hangers were chopped off the 20' 5.11 boulder at the base off clamshell's right side- If these people consider themselves climbers, they are sorely deluding themselves. Quote
hikerwa Posted September 24, 2001 Posted September 24, 2001 No shit.... Retro-sore-ass, this your doing? Quote
Retrosaurus Posted September 24, 2001 Posted September 24, 2001 Hiker, No. I did not. Good pun though. I have enjoyed toproping in the Icicle for many years. The Icicle needs more easily top-ropeable sub-5.8 climbing. Sorry your ass is so sore. Sit in a bucket of witchhazel. Hope you get over that bed-wetting soon. -Mitch Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 25, 2001 Posted September 25, 2001 You know there have to be places people learn and toprope at. I dont see any gain in removing bolts on these areas Quote
Beck Posted September 25, 2001 Posted September 25, 2001 I think Viktor had good beta on the miscreants- a__wipes who wear camo BDU's and drive around in an Army truck- somebody should contact the Nast'l Guard and see if any "reservists" were on "detail" two weekends ago- It could also be paramilitary dipweeds who think climbers are a pock on the Icicle Creek Canyon, albeit i think the person that left the fire burning that started this year's fires was some backwoods hunter dimbulb they probably used to buy drinks for at the Old Post Office- Quote
hikerwa Posted September 25, 2001 Posted September 25, 2001 Retro, sorry for the attack, I'm sure you didn't do it. Hope to see ya at the ropeup. Besides you are pobably way bigger than me and would kick my butt. hahaha sean Quote
Retrosaurus Posted September 25, 2001 Posted September 25, 2001 No worries, Sean. Would like to make it to the ropeup, but I work weekends. -Mitch Quote
gapertimmy Posted September 26, 2001 Posted September 26, 2001 jon and i were up there last Mon-Wed and we say the comando dudes as well. They we're walkin down the road to their gi joe truck with this supah big rack of shiny new gear, the plot thickens....... Quote
Beck Posted September 26, 2001 Posted September 26, 2001 VERY interesting, Tim... We (collectively as climbers) need to get to the bottom of this one or some dipweeds are going to continue the raping of climbers crags throughout the canyon... Quote
climbingjosh Posted September 26, 2001 Posted September 26, 2001 Beck- From a first hand witness, the fires were started by lightning. My party was in the enchantments when the lightning storm went over and struck the ridge above icicle canyon, and the snow creek area. Its funny how things get twisted to blame a group that someone doesn't like???? Quote
mattp Posted September 26, 2001 Posted September 26, 2001 Right you are, Josh, but Beck may simply have confused the Icicle fire with the ThirtyMile (or was it Twenty?) fire. That one WAS started by an untended campfire, almost certainly left behind by a dim bulb. I don't know about the hunter affiliation or the Old Post Office. Quote
Beck Posted September 27, 2001 Posted September 27, 2001 Sorry about the incorrect fire beta, I thought it was Leavenworth fire was the lazy fire tending one, not thirty mile, so I apologize. Oh yeah, I'm still concerned about guys in BDUs and an army truck being the most probable suspects right now for bolt chopping at the Icicle crags, just would like to find out WHASSUP with that. [This message has been edited by Beck (edited 09-26-2001).] Quote
mattp Posted September 27, 2001 Posted September 27, 2001 About the "commando's:" I will say that the only time that I have ever witnessed any theft and vandalism away from the roadhead, it was perpetrated by some GI's from Fort Lewis, but do we really have any information that would suggest the commandos are responsible for the bolt removal? About the "vamdalism:" I have known hangers to be stolen from a variety of places for no apparent reason, but the prior posts have indicated that somebody went to the trouble of actually pulling (not merely chopping) bolts from 8-mile and Clamshell. As I'm sure some of our friends who regularly post to this site will tell you: it takes a considerable effort to pull bolts (even some of those old rusty 1/4" spinners). I find it hard to believe that bolt removal was the act of a vandal -- indeed, somebody must have thought they were doing the right thing. Before we all jump on the bandwagon and call these guys assholes, let's look at the situation and try to figure out what happened. I believe that 8-mile Rock is on private property -- is it possible that the landowner is responding to some grievance against climbers? I don't know whether Clamshell is on private property or not. What to do: Somebody who shall remain anonymous suggested to me that we replace all the missing bolts as a service project this weekend, and that might be consistent with the theme of "fostering the stewardship of the vertical environment." However, I believe we should try to figure out what happened, and if somebody was trying to make a statement by pulling bolts, I'd want to know what that statement was and I'd want to try to address it before I had any part in some kind of bolt battle. What do you guys (and gals) think? Quote
viktor Posted September 27, 2001 Posted September 27, 2001 I'd like to know if any bolts were actually pulled or just the hangers removed. I placed the station on GRTC myself and I recall they were Rawl 1/2"ers. These bolts can be unscrewed and removed easily, leaving the sleeve behind. It sounds like we're dealing with ordinary thieves who pocket community property just because they can. These guys are not "chopping" to make a statement. I can almost guarantee those hangers will not reappear on any new routes around here or anywhere. Anyone that low isn't about to "recycle" hangers elsewhere for the benefit of others. Quote
Retrosaurus Posted September 27, 2001 Posted September 27, 2001 I'm headed out there this afternoon with my wife. I'll try to collect the info on what exactly is missing and remains and where. -Mitch Quote
Dru Posted September 27, 2001 Posted September 27, 2001 Seeing Retro place a bolt, that would be an odd sight Quote
mattp Posted September 27, 2001 Posted September 27, 2001 Retro - Let us know what you find. I do not have a drill but I can bring some hangers for 1/2" and 3/8" bolts to the Megafest, and if we are in general agreement that at least some of the missing hangers or bolts were removed for no reason other than vandalism or theft, I'd be willing to help replace them. -mattp Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 27, 2001 Posted September 27, 2001 It is obviously some sort of vandalism. I don't see any debate. If you guys don't fix them then I certainly will the next time I am in the area. Quote
mattp Posted September 28, 2001 Posted September 28, 2001 Cavey - Dred's post noted that many of the missing hangers are for anchors that can easily be set with natural pro. Thus, it would seem that perhaps this is a situation very similar to that which you protested on DDD: these may in fact be climbs that had for many years been climbed without bolts and somebody might be unhappy that they were "retrobolted." Call me paranoid, but I'm for caution when it comes to possibly inflaming somebody because we don't need a public controversy. Access has already been a problem in the canyon and there are both land managers and property owners who would be all too happy to close areas to climbing if they had an excuse to do so. -mattp [This message has been edited by mattp (edited 09-27-2001).] Quote
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