How much gas for Denali?

[Bug]

3 of us are going up the West Rib May 17. We are planning on taking .9 cups of gas per person per day. We will use MSR XGK stoves. We plan to summit in 13 days if we are lucky with the weather. We will take 3 gallons up with us which gives us 1 extra gallon for storm support.

We will be up there in late may to early June so we probably can't count on getting left over gas from people coming down.

Any comments? Any flaws in our reasoning?

Thanks for any input.

Bug

[fern]

you use weird units. how much is 0.9 cups in oz or mL?

I don't think you will run out with 3 gallons. Could maybe get by with less if you are efficient with a stove. Use a windscreen and a heat-xchanger.

I have not done an expedition to such an altitude. My trips have shown that 90mL/person/day works if running water is available, 120mL/person/day covers melting (wettish spring) snow for all water needs. Add on whatever safety margin you like, if you have too much at the end light a big fire

Here's a fun story about glaciers and flammables. A certain glacier researcher found he had a great deal of extra propane at the end of a field season, conveniently there was a small surface stream draining into a moulin nearby, hmm, propane is heavier than air ... so they emptied the propane tank into the moulin, then hiked up along the stream a 'safe' distance, poured a leetle bit of gasoline into the stream and lit it, then plugged their ears and waited ..... WHABOOOM! big fiery geyser coming out of the glacier

[Bug]

I didn't like the cups thing either but I borrowed it from a Denali site. I've heard that most groups bring gas down with them even when they stay as long as they can. The Geyser thing sounds fun. When I was on a fire crew we used to set a molotav coctail at the base of a medium size dried out tree and shoot it. WHOOOOF! Up like a match.

[Walter_Burt]

My two partners and I used the 1/2 pint (1.00 cup) per person per day rule for a 17-day trip on Denali in 1991. We planned for up to 28 days on the South Buttress, but ended up on the West Buttress (Mugs bit it on the Ramp right before we arrived). We consumed a little over 2 gallons, or something like 0.7 cups per person per day using two MSR XGK stoves. We had very nice weather for most of the trip though, which I suspect kept our fuel consumption down.

Good luck and have fun

Walt

[crazyjizzy]

The flight services will sell you gas that is already up at the Kahiltna. They will also have an idea how much you will need, based on years of experience. Don't sweat it.

[Bug]

What I'm sweating about is how much shit I'm gonna have on my feeble back. We are going straight up the Rib with no double carries. We are thinking about dragging a sled to the base of the couliour but that only eats up two or three days of food and gas depending on how much we want to acclimatize. We are chopping everything that isn't needed to sustain life at subzero, arctic, atlitudes.

Thanks for the info guys! I'll let you know how it turns out.

[salbrecher]

Sounds like fun !

[DavidW]

I made an attempt on the Big Mac in 1991..... west buttress and came away with the idea that one could take only a few days worth of food and fuel and score the rest of your needs from the people who are bailing and want to unload goods. Perhaps its a bit over the top, but we had a daily smorgasbord of free food and fuel to choose from during the several weeks we were there!

[Nelly]

Make sure to haul your fuel AWAY from food and clothing. I've seen more than one expedition foiled by leaking fuel cans. The flight services refill old cans, so pick your fuel wisely and check the lid for a tight seal. 3 gallons of fuel is more than adequate. The old 1 cup/person/day rule insures you won't run out of fuel.

[rbw1966]

Yo bug--

You might want to just carry enough to hit the summit then scavenge once you head back down. I'm assuming you are descending via the west buttress and not trying to down-climb the rib. Are you climbing the entire west rib or doing the Riblet (rib from 14K to summit?). People on the descent are always trying to lighten their loads so you can score mucho food and fuel from 14k.

Have fun

[Dru]

take lotsa dried beans and generate your own methane gas.

[Bug]

Thanks Dru. Got it covered. I've been eating Glycosamine and MSM. That shit gives me gas in monumental proportions.

rbw1966, We are doing the whole rib from the NE Fork. Then returning via the WB. Since we are leaving May 17, I am a little concerned about scavanging. How many people are going to be coming down by June 1? If we have good weather we might beat the crowds going down.

Nelly, Good tip. I once spent three days eating glacier lilies and ptarmigan for just that reason. Since there are none of the above on Denali, I would have to eat climbers. Now there is cause for monumental gas.

[freeclimb9]

quote:

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Originally posted by DavidW:

I made an attempt on the Big Mac in 1991..... west buttress and came away with the idea that one could take only a few days worth of food and fuel and score the rest of your needs from the people who are bailing and want to unload goods. Perhaps its a bit over the top, but we had a daily smorgasbord of free food and fuel to choose from during the several weeks we were there!

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I haven't been there, but read that snowboarder types who are there for the spring-like snowfun (not the summit) take the freebies while hiking and sliding day after day. Sounds like fun to me.

[fern]

I said:My trips have shown 120mL/person/day . . .

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jhamaker says:

Way too much. The park reccomends 1pint/person per day (16oz).

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whatever dude, do you know how to convert oz to mL?

according to conversions 120mL is just under 1/2 cup (4 oz), so if anything I give too little, not surprising since as I stated this is the amount I use for lower elevation warm wet conditions.

[jhamaker]

>>>My trips have shown120mL/person/day . . .

Way too much. The park reccomends 1pint/person per day (16oz).

I go w/ 11oz/person/day and have enough fuel to make a 1qt. hot water bottle.

I would go as low as 8oz/person/day if: I was melting, not boiling, and had a heat-exchanger.

Have all stoved identical (can scavange parts)Know your stoves and how to fix them. Get them cleaned at MSR.

[Ade]

jhamaker says:

quote:

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Way too much. The park reccomends 1pint/person per day (16oz).

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It does not. From the NPS Mountaineering Booklet:

 

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Stoves

Carry at least two stoves of proven efficiency that work at high altitudes and in extreme cold. Carry spare parts for cleaning and repairs. Almost all parties use white gas, which is readily available. Disposable gas cartridge models are discouraged and the cartridges are difficult to obtain in Alaska. Domestic cartridges may not be pressurized enough for the extreme cold. Plan on 4 to 8 ounces (.15 to .30 liters) of white gas per person per day. You will need more fuel earlier in the season due to colder temperatures and drier snow. All full and empty fuel containers must be packed out. The rangers may request to see your containers upon arriving at base camp.

 

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Given the NPS's conservative attitude 1pt per person per day seems excessive.

[Cpt.Caveman]

When I go to Denali I am going to make sure my pilot takes enough gas to land the plane on the summit

[Dru]

How fuel efficient is your snowmobile?

[Son_of_Caveman]

 

40 MPG

[imorris]

we're all sick of your st. helens photos cave boy.

[Son_of_Caveman]

Up yours shit stick

 

If I see ya on the trail, I'll be sure to run over your sorry fuckin' ass.

 

Blow me

[Attitude]

quote:

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Originally posted by Son of Caveman:

Up yours shit stick

 

If I see ya on the trail, I'll be sure to run over your sorry fuckin' ass.

 

Blow me

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