DMM Dragon--A review and hints

[Coldfinger]

Yes there have been reviews here before of the DMM Dragon, but here's a look at some finer points and a close look at the extendable sling.

 

Gotta love the hot forged cams, have been impressed with the lack of deformation so far, this is a BIG difference between any other manufacturer.

 

Can't say these handle any differently than thumb looped cables, the width of the hot forged stem fitting provides a fumble free base (unlike C2 Camalots and Tech Friends), with better contact surface area than a loop. The stem fitting design has the flexibilty to choose using either the thumb tip (ala the Tech Friend) OR the base of the thumb much the same as a loop. Makes using gloves a snap.

 

In addition to the weight savings of an extendable sling, i.e. the weight and clutter of a quickdraw, it is much simpler than having to reach down and grab a draw, clip it and then clip the rope. It IS important to unclip the correct strand (the non-bar tacked one), as the bar tacks will not pass through the eyelets. I have placed marking tape over the plastic sheath on the bar tacks to help me quickly identify (and remind me) which strand to unclip.

 

EDIT--Do NOT use rubber bands or O rings with open slings. Death link.

 

Extendable slings can be a bit of a finger puzzle when one is working with one pumped hand, so I'd strongly suggest practicing and refining that technique. Then it is quick and second nature. I push that strand through using my thumb on the biner back, my ring and pinky on the biner bottom and my pointer and middle fingers on the dyneema strand in a 'pinch unclip'. The key is to have the non bar-tacked strand closest to the gate and the bar-tacked strand closest to the biner back when one is racking up, this simple trick makes a HUGE difference.

 

 

Another benefit of the sling and eyelet design is that I have found that even when not extended, the sling pivots more easily and freely than any other cam I've used. It is longer than most even when not extended.

 

The shorter stem also seems to reduce the stem's leverage on the cam head, thus further reducing walking.

 

A huge plus is how small these are in your pack, a BIG plus in the backcountry.

 

Nice to be able to buy good gear that is NOT made in China.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Coldfinger

[Edvin M]

I used O-rings like on an extendable quickdraw to attach the biner to the sewn part of the sling. Makes it super easy to unclip the right end

[Coldfinger]

I used O-rings like on an extendable quickdraw to attach the biner to the sewn part of the sling. Makes it super easy to unclip the right end

 

If it's an OPEN sling.............

 

Do NOT do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, here's why.

 

This has caused at least one death.

 

MP Discussion

 

This is the reason short quickdraws which come from the manufacturer with rubber o-rings or inserts are ALL dogboned with bartacks and not open loop.

[Edvin M]

Yeah, I know there's a risk involved and I had a quickdraw backclip on me once but I really don't see it as an issue with the dragon cams, first, they are much heavier than a quickdraw so the risk that they "invert" and backclip on your harness is pretty small. Second, you only have two strands through the biner so you are going to be able to see if there's something funky about it when you place it.

[billcoe]

IMO Black Diamond Camalots are better cams. Not just better for the price as they are cheaper: better.

 

As far as the "deformation" thing noted above goes, outside of seeing one or 2 pictures of the smallest Metolius cams (the aid climbing pieces) being broken when someone took a free climbing whipper on one, I've never seen one of those deform either. Cheaper. Lighter. Better than Dragons.

[Coldfinger]

Lighter? Really?

 

Have been watching quite a few folks leaving a draw on every Camalot they place, so I figure you have to compare a Dragon and one biner to a Camalot, a runner, and three biners.

 

Probably not a big problem if you're craggin, but it sure adds up if you gotta hike any distance and then lug the entire rack up 12 pitches. Also tends to cut down on the harness clutter if you don't have to bring a ton of draws.

 

Agreed on small sizes, using WC Zeroes myself as I like having four cams, a very flexible stem and the extendable sling. Would be using Metolius if not.

 

Big plus on DMM/WC is the color coding matches their lines of nuts which are hands down the best. Again a small thing, but I'd be more impressed with BD if their nuts were color coded to match their line of cams, instead of just coloring the nuts for the sake of coloring them.

 

And nice catch on the String thing!

 

 

[bearbreeder]

the dragons work just fine ... other than the sling i find no real difference between them and C4s ... i use em interchangeably on my rack

 

as to extending the slings when pumped ... i carry em extended sometimes on my chest sling should i know that the pitch requires that piece to be placed from a poor stance

 

 

[Buckaroo]

Have been watching quite a few folks leaving a draw on every Camalot they place, so I figure you have to compare a Dragon and one biner to a Camalot, a runner, and three biners.

 

I have some 1/2 draws that I use for cams, just a single beaner and a 1/4 length spectra sling.

 

the only thing I don't like about the Dragons is the individual lobes are narrower than a C4, so less contact patch, that and the clip length is longer so when you're aiding you don't get as much distance from each piece.

 

Saving 1 beaner per placement is a weight advantage though

 

and the DMM wallnuts are the best ever made. They set easily and securely and clean just as easy.

[DPS]

I have some 1/2 draws that I use for cams, just a single beaner and a 1/4 length spectra sling.

 

I do the same thing for alpine climbing. I carry 8-10 single length sewn spectra slings, 2-3 of which have a single biner just for extending Camalot placements. All of my other single slings are configured as alpine draws. It saves the weight of maybe 3 carabiners, but everything adds up.

[boadman]

I like them too. I find them easy to use and the extendable slings are pretty great as I almost always put at least a quick draw on my BDs. I find a simpler way to extend the slings is to take the biner completely off the sling, and clip it to the bar tacked side and then clip the rope to it. I bet it's as fast as your method, and less finicky. They're also less bulky on my harness, which I really like.

[layton]

I like the BD C4s better because of the ergonomics of the thumb loop and the ability to clip short for aiding. I like the nylon sling better because it is more durable and it has a bit of dynamic stretch to it. I don't want to deal with the extendable sling on hard climbing and would rather clip a sling or quick draw. On alpine, I can see the advantage of an extendable sling - but if the climbing is easy, I don't mind the extra weight and if it's hard, again I'd rather clip a sling in quickly than deal with extending one on the cam. It also generates less rack clutter.

 

Cam deformation on C4s is a complete non-issue.

 

That said, Dragon cams are nice units and I wouldn't turn down a free one.

[DPS]

On a complete tangent, I weighed my old, U stem style 0.75 Camalot Junior and my new Camalot C4 0.75 and they weighed exactly the same. I thought the C4s were supposed to offer a significant decrease in weight.

Edited May 1, 2012 by DPS

[DaveH]

Has anyone tried the new Helium Friends? How do they stack up against C4's and Dragons?

[layton]

Helium friends are almost identical to the new C4s except they are a wee bit heavier, and a slightly smaller expansion range resulting in needing one more cam for a full set comparable to a BD .5-6 and have dyneema vs nylon slings. C4s stand out as just a bit better, but fill a size gap for very specific places like Indian Creek (and you can fill that void with metolius cams which are better in sandstone anyways).

[DaveH]

Every review of the Helium friends says they are lighter than C4's. I've read all the technical reviews about the differences - I'm trying to get comments from the average joe climber who has used both to find their comments on what they did or didn't like about the Friends compared to C4's and Dragons.

[edwardsm]

If you liked the old friends, you'll like the helium friends. stem/loop design is very similar to the C4 but calling a single-axle cam almost identical to a double-axle cam seems like a bit of a stretch.

 

using the helium friends, I found them straightforward and the action felt very simliar to the C4's. the thing I like the least about them is the lack of easy colour differentiation...the ones we have up here don't seem to follow a pattern with respect to colours vs. cam size...kinda a nuisance if you are used to quickly grabbing cams based on colour. overall though they seem to be a very well designed set.

 

plus, if you make your way up to the great white north, MEC is selling helium friends for a measly $54-57 (depending on size) which is a smokin' deal for made-in-the-UK cams!

[Coldfinger]

There was a big dislike for me--the Helium friends dangle way low when you add a biner to the very long stem and long sling from my harness. Freaking things got in my way. Not sure why the stem is so long, but the dragon has a nicer stem length and a better sling.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Coldfinger

[boadman]

I'm fairly certain I can extend the sling faster than you can take a quick draw off your harness and clip it to the c4. Also, in terms of rack clutter, you can reduce the number of draws required by at least half on most routes if you're climbing with a rack of dmms.

[Coldfinger]

Heard all these cam deformation is not an issue comments; guys I did not mean the cam failing, rather was speaking of how well the hot forged (and not merely milled) cams have held up to use--no signs of wear.

 

I'd add the dragon has a better sling even when it is NOT extended.

 

Probabably would give the C4 the nod for aid due to the shorter clip point, but for free climbing it is pretty hard to beat DMM. Interestingly the cam width on the dragon varies with 2-4 having wider cams.

 

 

[Eric K]

+1 for DMM. I have two dragons I got on sale and prefer them to my BDs. I have one set of C4 .5-4 and eventually I would like to have the same set in dragons. That way I have the benfits of both, but that will take a while since I only buy gear when I need it and my partners can usually cover any gear I don't have.

 

In general I find every piece of DMM gear to be super high quality. I agree that wall nuts are the best but I also think their torque nuts or the best hexes around.

[aforslund]

Helium friend heavier than a C4??

 

Really Layton?? Are you sure??

 

I just weighed a #1 C4 and it weighs in at 136g without a biner.

[layton]

i just glanced at the websites given specs. I don't own any so I can't say for sure. Anyway, arguing about cams on the internet is a retarded waste of time. What some people love, others hate.