AlpineK Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) War is collective violence which is the summation of individual acts of violence. Your neighbor murdering his wife isn't war. But I thought your point was humans weren't a violent species. Or are you saying we're violent but not warlike? If humans were normally peaceful and didn't engage in violent activities from time to time Moses and his ten commandments would be cut from the bible. [img:center]http://www.crystalinks.com/mosesthrow.gif[/img] It's easier to maintain order and prevent violence if you say god wants you to be nice as opposed to your neighbor bob wants you to be nice. I believe most religions refer to higher powers and ask individuals to be nice. Why is group activity different from individual activity? The Supreme Court ruled Corporations are people All joking aside I fail to see the difference between individual and group behavior. A higher power reminded me to edit this post and mark it Edited March 22, 2012 by Feck Quote
minx Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Kurt - I'm going to simplify and not do any research. Indvidual v. Group? Mob mentality. There's been plenty of studies done demonstrating that people will go along with crowd and do things they wouldn't do if left to making a decision as an individual. The Nazis are a fine example of that. Quote
dougd Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Kurt - I'm going to simplify and not do any research. Indvidual v. Group? Mob mentality. There's been plenty of studies done demonstrating that people will go along with crowd and do things they wouldn't do if left to making a decision as an individual. The Nazis are a fine example of that. IE: Herd Mentality... I can rest my case, Minx agrees with me... Quote
Coldfinger Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Riot vs. War? One is the mob tired of the 1%, The other is the 1% tired of the mob. Quote
rob Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 There's been plenty of studies.... there HAS been plenty of studies? Really, Minx? Quote
Off_White Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Yah, keep it up perfesser... :: [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhJGo0RcY_k Quote
AlpineK Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Yes I know groups do things individuals might not. For example if it were up to me we never would have gone to war in Iraq. My point is the collective thought process is similar to individual thought process. I've listened to studies that describe a human brains as being ruled by 99% emotion and 1% rational thought. Basically human brains are like a giant elephant controlled by a scrawny elephant driver. If we're smart we listen to the rational part and don't steal from the store despite being short on money, or drive 90 mph on a road with a 50 mph speed limit when we're behind schedule. Hopefully individuals and groups do the right thing, but there isn't a 100% gaurentee [img:center]http://www.vaguebuttrue.com/images/1257635766-elephant%20attacks%20minibus.jpg[/img] [img:center]http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/King+Cup+Elephant+Polo+Tournament+GaraBqBAL-bl.jpg[/img] Quote
rob Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 [img:center]http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/King+Cup+Elephant+Polo+Tournament+GaraBqBAL-bl.jpg[/img] the "E" must be for elephant Quote
minx Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 There's been plenty of studies.... there HAS been plenty of studies? Really, Minx? Rob - I am babysitting today. Don't start with me...i'm in charge of 3 children under the age of 12. I'm a little cranky! Quote
kevbone Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I am babysitting today. i'm in charge of 3 children under the age of 12. Say hi to Pink for me. Quote
minx Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I am babysitting today. i'm in charge of 3 children under the age of 12. Say hi to Pink for me. he sends his love Quote
ivan Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 [img:center]http://www.vaguebuttrue.com/images/1257635766-elephant%20attacks%20minibus.jpg[/img] they musta left their cooler in the car? Quote
E-rock Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Until the pictures of elephants, this thread sucked. Quote
j_b Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 War is collective violence which is the summation of individual acts of violence. Your neighbor murdering his wife isn't war. But I thought your point was humans weren't a violent species. Or are you saying we're violent but not warlike? On average we are neither especially violent or warlike as shown by the overwhelming majority of humans who aren't that way. War and most violence aren't ineluctable as claimed by many, which was the main point I was making, but you probably should have gotten all of this from what I wrote in this thread. Quote
j_b Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 It's easier to maintain order and prevent violence if you say god wants you to be nice as opposed to your neighbor bob wants you to be nice. It'd probably be more effective to value citizenry and community, and get rid of the psychopathic warmongers some people regularly elect to office. Quote
j_b Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Do you know what really sucks? People who claim that war is inevitable and justify the actions of warmongering sociopaths in the process. Quote
j_b Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Yes I know groups do things individuals might not. For example if it were up to me we never would have gone to war in Iraq. You were far from being alone. Despite non-stop deceitful propaganda, people only rallied to support the Iraq war when they were told we were going to war (along with copious reminders of "you are either with us or against us", for good measure). It didn't take very long for war support to wane either even though most people were not being visibly affected by it. The truth is that throughout history most people are either against war and/or quickly rally to that idea when the effects of war become obvious. Quote
rob Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 War is collective violence which is the summation of individual acts of violence. Your neighbor murdering his wife isn't war. But I thought your point was humans weren't a violent species. Or are you saying we're violent but not warlike? On average we are neither especially violent or warlike as shown by the overwhelming majority of humans who aren't that way. War and most violence aren't ineluctable as claimed by many, which was the main point I was making, but you probably should have gotten all of this from what I wrote in this thread. I kind of get your point -- most humans are probably not regularly engaged in violence. But the flaw in this logic is that it assumes that at least 51% of a species must be engaged in violence to assume a species is violent, which is a fallacy. Labeling a species as violent seems like a relativistic statement -- it doesn't matter how many humans are engaged in violence, it matters how such a propensity towards violence relates to other species. Referring to humans as a "non-violent" species obviously would be bad advice. So it's a matter of comparing our violence towards that of the other animals on this planet, and to that end it seems like humans indeed have quite a capacity for killing each other. Quote
j_b Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 No, the flaw is to assume that we are anything as a species independently of our environmental and social surroundings. Humans are capable of violence and war but they are also capable of many other things. Human nature is what we make of it, not some predetermined inevitability. Quote
rob Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 No, the flaw is to assume that we are anything as a species independently of our environmental and social surroundings. Humans are capable of violence and war but they are also capable of many other things. Human nature is what we make of it, not some predetermined inevitability. Disagree. I mean, to a point, sure we can be what we want. But so much of human nature is...well, nature. Just like any other animal. Our brains work a certain way, just like any other mammal, and our behavior tends to fit into a mold. Of course there are one-off examples that break the mold, but an animal is an animal. Of course environmental and social surroundings impact how we behave, but human nature significantly dictates how we react to these things, and controls even how easily (or not) we can change ourselves and so react differently. Agreed that humans are capable of many things. I'm not sure any other animal has the self-awareness to actually change its behavior the way that humans can. But there are still definitely parts of our basic nature that are part of who we are. Just like every other species. Quote
Coldfinger Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 predetermined inevitability Pretty much sums up the spray genome. Quote
Serenity Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 ALL adult age males need to register for mandatory military service. The draft needs to be reinstated. Period - end of story. The days of war being an abstraction because you KNOW you won't have to go, therefore you do not need to invest yourself need to come to an end. When everyone has the potential to be slaughtered equally then perhaps wiser decisions regarding wars and lives will lead to rapid endings to Imperial Dreams. Quote
Coldfinger Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I beg to disagree, GOP types start illogical wars and their campaign donors make billions, send shareholders first. Blood should follow profit. Quote
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