Federal Tax Reform is SEXY

[Fence_Sitter]

[Jim]

No. What I mean is that the upper income levels have been getting such a break over the last 30 years in comparison to the middle and lower incomes. Marginal tax rates are the highest rates the government charges. They are usually to the "marginal" or way upper incomes. These have seen a steep and steady decline. Capital gains taxes have also decreased. Now - while the widely stated statistic is that almost 50% of households own stock and get some capital gains. True enough. But 90% of those gains are gotten by less than 5% of households. The benefits to most folks are chump change, the wealthy are raking in the benefits of these tax reductions.

 

The proportion of income in taxes (all payroll taxes) the lower and middle income folks pay is way higher compared to what upper income folks pay. I guess my bottom line is fairness. I see fairness as an equity issue. You should be paying in some proportion as your ability to pay. What I see is increasing pressure to reduce upper end taxes while removing benefits for the lower social classes.

 

I don't know your personal situation. But a lower limit for $2 million for an estate tax seems like quite a bit of money to me. And there are options to reduce this tax exposure with long-term planning. It does not seem unfair to me.

[chucK]

Ian you are totally kicking ASS today!!! Either you've written a script or you've been doing some exhaustive BB watching. How many times have you hit the "refresh" button today at "work"!!?

 

Here's to you a new standard in pagetopsnaffling.

[Jim]

Forget taxes. How does Ian get that squirrel up there so fast?

[gregm]

that's right iain, you are all over those page tops! i was going to try for this one but had to go do some work stuff

 

iain really likes it when people appreciate his page top work.

 

atta boy iain [pat on head] gooood booooy

[iain]

code:

---

 foreach $line (@page) {

if ($line =~ m/<a href.+>(.*)<\/a> by ([A-Za-z0-9\. ]+) [\&nbsp\;]*\(post \# ([0-9]+)\)/ ) {

 

if ($3 % 25 == 0) { (do a little snaffle voodoo here }

[/code]

you think I actually bother to read this stuff?

 

 

[ 11-14-2002, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: iain ]

[MtnGoat]

"engaging you in specifics is about as fun as striking up a conversation with Speak'n'Spell."

 

and responding to your assumptions that resisting your desire to make your fellow citizens pay, means they don't care, is about as challenging. Taking apart your assumptions that my refusal to support using my neighbors labor means I don't care and don't see any problems, was really tough.

 

[ 11-14-2002, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: MtnGoat ]

[iain]

I can barely tell what you are saying there. I'm off to check out the snow on Hood now adieu. Folks I'll be at smith one or both of the weekend days here maybe catch you guys there.

[MtnGoat]

"Ah yes the simplistic bullshit counterpunch"

 

More like the realistic question, called bullshit by those who don't like direct, simple questions. Not everything is exceedingly complex and difficult in spite of it being popular to construe it as so.

 

When did it become assumed the huddled masses come here to obtain resources worked for by other people?

[chucK]

quote:

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Originally posted by Muffy The Wanker Sprayer:

how clever of you to catch my drift

perks and (gigantic)saleries should no longer be paid

---

I agree. Being a politician is all about fun and srviss to you're cuontry!!! They shood do it for free Or at least for less munny than they can get someware else

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Why shouldn't the huddled masses come here expecting resources worked for by other people? The country's founded on the inequitable taking of resources from other people!

[iain]

Nothing could be more simple than your intense selfishness and disregard for society in general. I personally don't like seeing desperate people wandering around in my town trying to survive. Will I walk up to them and hand over my money? Of course not. Am I willing to believe in a system where I contribute some of my income to the overall good of the community? You bet. Yes, the system sucks in places. But if you honestly believe that every individual out there who is not as fortunate as you to have a home, education, etc is somehow a leech on society and is out to get you, I pity you, as that is not a fun way to live life.

[Jim]

Well I guess you can argure govenrment intrusion but it seems unfair to me that Enron paid on taxes on millions of profits the past few years of it's existence. And they are not alone. And not because they were dishonest, they were just following the tax code. Same goes for wealthy individuals.

 

It's just not fair. I know, fair to who? Right? Generally the middle and lower earners are getting fleeced.

[rbw1966]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim:

It's just not fair. I know, fair to who? Right? Generally the middle and lower earners are getting fleeced.

---

Especially when its a disproportionate segment of these folks who are sent into battle to protect the rights of all.

[vegetablebelay]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim:

There are many more ways to dodge it at the upper levels. You need to do some more research if you doubt that.

---

Everybody who owns a house,or has a kid, or gives to charity, or takes a loss on an investment gets to "dodge" some taxes. If the poor were also investing in real estate or businesses or partnerships they would get more "dodges" much like wealthy do. Even with all of these "dodges" the wealthy are still paying more in actual dollars than most of the rest make in 10 years.

[sk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by chucK:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Muffy The Wanker Sprayer:

how clever of you to catch my drift

perks and (gigantic)saleries should no longer be paid

---

I agree. Being a politician is all about fun and srviss to you're cuontry!!!

They shood do it for free

Or at least for less munny than they can get someware else

---

If you are making fun of my spelling I will KICK YOUR ASS or pay someone to do it for me

 

I have stated before, that I do not think that polatics should be a career it should be a service that people feel moved to do, not a money making venture. IF ANY ONE SHOULD BE MAKING GREAT MONEY being of sevice to this country I think it aught to be those that ACTUALY PUT THEIR ASSES ON THE LINE

[sk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by vegetablebelay:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jim:

There are many more ways to dodge it at the upper levels. You need to do some more research if you doubt that.

---

Everybody who owns a house,or has a kid, or gives to charity, or takes a loss on an investment gets to "dodge" some taxes. If the poor were also investing in real estate or businesses or partnerships they would get more "dodges" much like wealthy do. Even with all of these "dodges" the wealthy are still paying more in actual dollars than most of the rest make in 10 years.

---

HOW CAN THE POOR INVEST???

[iain]

[vegetablebelay]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Muffy The Wanker Sprayer:

I think it aught to be those that ACTUALY PUT THEIR ASSES ON THE LINE

---

She says as she sits on her ass at home, unemployed.....

[sk]

I tried working but child care was more than I made

[sk]

where's the snappy comeback veggie???

[chucK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Muffy The Wanker Sprayer:

IF ANY ONE SHOULD BE MAKING GREAT MONEY being of sevice to this country I think it aught to be those that ACTUALY PUT THEIR ASSES ON THE LINE

---

Fair enough. Try paying all those guys n' gals what they make now, let alone GREAT MONEY, with a 10% flat tax. I think you'll come up short.

[sk]

I didn't say it was possible, just that is where the money should go frankly this is all a mute subject. thease are the same arguments I have been hearing for more than 10 years and still nothing has changed Poor people are poor. rich people don't give a shit. life is hard. learn to live with it. And on top of all that, the econamy has taken a nose dive and looks verry much like what I remember things being like in oregon in the early to mid eighties

[chucK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jim:

There are many more ways to dodge it at the upper levels. You need to do some more research if you doubt that.

---

But you need to dodge a lot more too, if you're making more. I find it hard to believe that individuals bringing home > 100K$/year could legally shield > 20% of their income. But I'm interested in being educated if I'm wrong. What methods do these wealthy tax dodgers use? Maybe it's a dumb question, with an obvious answer, but I am clueless. Do you even have a quick off the cuff/out your ass/hypothetical/Goatlandish example to offer?

[JoshK]

LOL...I'm bored, so, for some reason, I skimmed through this thread.

 

I have no desire to argue one way or another, but I would like to point out a completly wrong assumption that some people are trying to make: People who are wealthier (earn more) got this way through hard work all the time and, thus, contribute more to society. That's the biggest line of bullshit I've ever read. The guy who works at my local deli and my garbage man both make less, but contribute significantly more, than most of the middle management at a ton of companies.