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kevbone

Dracula on gear

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Dave, you're just not keeping up with the times. The implicit assertion being made is you shouldn't get hurt on a sport climb, i.e. they should be relatively riskless (like in gyms, for recent parents, and serious hobbiyists).

 

Times have changed and you and your routes are showing their age. Who knew the day would arrive when sport climbs would join the vaunted ranks of 'adventure climbing'.

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Ahhh....that explains it all. No personal responsibility, it's someone elses fault. doG forbid I actually have to think for myself.

Yes I am getting old, but it gives me childish pleasure to know that I'll always climb better than Kevin, even at my advanced age.

And yes I know climbing harder doesn't make me a better person - but it does make me better-looking and smarter :-)

--------------dave

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Yes I am getting old, but it gives me childish pleasure to know that I'll always climb better than Kevin, even at my advanced age.

And yes I know climbing harder doesn't make me a better person - but it does make me better-looking and smarter :-)

--------------dave

 

I am glad that we are at this point in the game Dave. You have shown your true colors for all the world to see with your statement above.

 

Just remember....the only person you should be competing against is yourself. You have and will always climb harder than me.....for I never took it as serious as you and good for you for doing so. I also peaked out 4 years ago when I decided to commit to my children instead of abandoning them every weekend to pursue selfish exploits like rock climbing.....good for me (and my children).

 

Thanks for be a good steward of the rock climbing community in the greater Portland area for the last 20 years!

 

Take care

 

Kevin

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Yes I am getting old, but it gives me childish pleasure to know that I'll always climb better than Kevin, even at my advanced age.

And yes I know climbing harder doesn't make me a better person - but it does make me better-looking and smarter :-)

--------------dave

 

I am glad that we are at this point in the game Dave. You have shown your true colors for all the world to see with your statement above.

 

Just remember....the only person you should be competing against is yourself. You have and will always climb harder than me.....for I never took it as serious as you and good for you for doing so. I also peaked out 4 years ago when I decided to commit to my children instead of abandoning them every weekend to pursue selfish exploits like rock climbing.....good for me (and my children).

 

Thanks for be a good steward of the rock climbing community in the greater Portland area for the last 20 years!

 

Take care

 

Kevin

 

Kevin the last statement was meant as a joke, the smiley should have given it away.

I always compete against myself for my own satisfaction and no one elses. Whether I climb better than you or not doesn't meant anything - Ondra climbs better than both of us.

I'm glad you spend the time with your kids, good for you.

I was trying to get a conversation going about "personal choices", "dangerous climbs", etc, but you wouldn't give me any answers, except stating that I would have been at fault if Kevin R had hit the deck from Comfortizer. Something that I doubt many climbers would agree with. As you won't continue with that line then I guess the thread is dead.

Though I was right about the better-looking, smarter bit :-)

--------------------dae

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I retract my statement about you being at fault for someone elses choice to climb your route. Happy?

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You PDXers are so dysfunctional.

i'm drinking beer n' watching raising arizona w/ my brood on a thursday morning, so i don't know what yer talking 'bout! :)

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So. . . Bloodline is definitely much harder. For me. Swinging that foot up over the roof was a challenge. Maybe cause i'm tall?? I thought 12c could have even been justified. I was much weaker then, though. Dracula went down without much of a fight and I have repeated it at least 20 times.

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I am barely a .12 climber and got bloodline after a few times on it. I was working dracula when I left but agree that the moves while not as hard are more sustained. I remember when Mark and a few others were retro-trad climbing stuff over there and thought that B-line was pretty doable on gear if you get it dialed.

 

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Agreed, the moves on Dracula are easier but the route is more sustained. But I thought there were enough places to hang out and rest. I think Bloodline has been done on gear.

It's what we Brits call "headpointing" - you dial the route on TR or in this case lead and then go for it. The center section takes bomber gear, and when I first did BL it didn't have that bolt - you placed a couple of good nuts in the crack. I added the bolt when some climbers moaned about placing gear on a bolted climb.

A mistake - I should have left it out.

Kudos to Matt S for leading Dracula on marginal gear, he's a big boy and would probably rip a lot of the gear in a fall. But it is well within his abilities, and I'm sure he's probably done it enough times. Still ballsy though.

Remember that when these climbs went in they were pushing the limits of do-ability in Portland. Ancient history now of course.

--------------------------dave

 

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this thread is all over the place and great! mano a mano duels, and great spray!

 

i never knew the name of the 4 bolt 11b (is that the grade?) at Madrone. Now i do: Comfortizer. If it is 11b, then it's the first 11b i ever onsighted - and honestly, i think the bolt spacing gave me the needed incentive to get the send. once i made that dicey third clip, i was fully in the zone and ready to climb until i fell, no way would i take a hang at that point. Lowering from the chains about 5-6 years ago was one of my happier moments. so, in some double-edged irony and thanks to dave's spare bolting, that send is memorable in a way that sends of masterpiece theater or the crumbling at ozone simply are not.

 

then again, i agree with kevin that the second bolt is really too low to catch you if you fall while getting set to clip the third bolt. but this ought to be apparent from the ground, and certainly as you prepare for the third clip. so you either walk on by or else tell your belayer to get set. some climbs are like that.

 

but we can nitpick dozens of climbs that coulda shoulda had bolts lower, or to the side, or just one more bolt (i also would love to see critical mass sprout another bolt up top, but somehow i doub that will happen).

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I don't think you'd hit the ground from the third bolt unless you had a shit load of slack out and if the clip was/is that dicey - maybe you should just fall off at that point with no slack out?

My thought while bolting it was that you were standing on a good ledge while clipping the 2nd bolt (where you would hit the ground if you fell) and then you went into the steep fun stuff where I didn't think anyone "could" clip a third bolt until on the lip crimp.

Glad that you enjoyed the climb and yeah we tend to remember best the ones we had to work for.

Anyone done the one bolt extension??

---------------------------dave

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the extension looked gnarly. what does it go at?

 

also, i think ground-falls are to be expected any time you fall with the rope out to clip, unless you are at least 4-5 bolts up. a routesetter shouldn't have to drill bolts to keep people off the deck in the event they blow a clip. clipping is the moment of truth, if you can't clip, drop the rope and downclimb. or take the whip. or grab the draw. or try to clip off a higher hold. basically, do anything but flail with the rope waving around up there! or else accept that for the glory of the "send" you are willing to risk decking. i think we've all done that at some point, on some climb. climbing is just not safe, no matter how many bolts a route has...

 

 

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the extension is .12b, and as far as I know has had only one repeat -Darius Azin, years ago. I've done it a couple of times and thought I'd overgraded it -- 11d fer sure :-). Though I've watched several people try it and it seems hard.

Pretty much my thoughts on climbing/clipping - even bolted climbs can (and do) kill you.

Comfortizer is one of the few climbs that I've put up that I really enjoy repeating (to the first anchor). Most of the others were fun to put up, but once it was RP'ed then it was on to the next challenge.

I must have done it a couple of hundred times over the years, up and down, once in gumboots and once with a paper bag over my head! That was a fun day :-)

Have fun out there and stay safe --------------dave

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the extension looked gnarly. what does it go at?

 

also, i think ground-falls are to be expected any time you fall with the rope out to clip, unless you are at least 4-5 bolts up. a routesetter shouldn't have to drill bolts to keep people off the deck in the event they blow a clip. clipping is the moment of truth, if you can't clip, drop the rope and downclimb. or take the whip. or grab the draw. or try to clip off a higher hold. basically, do anything but flail with the rope waving around up there! or else accept that for the glory of the "send" you are willing to risk decking. i think we've all done that at some point, on some climb. climbing is just not safe, no matter how many bolts a route has...

 

 

I think the exact opposite. Sport climbs should be sport climbs. First two bolts should be a meter or so apart, 3.5 or so for the 3rd bolt, add a meter or so for each consecutive bolt if the terrain allows it (ie, no ledges to bonk into). Bolt so that you clip at your waist from a decent stance, ideally, but always shoulder level and below.

 

Then you won't have any issues with decking.

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well I always take into account the grade, I won't bolt an .11 to make it safe for a 5.8 climber. If the moves are easy (compared to the overall grade) then no bolt or widely spaced. I think climbers are used to "gym spaced bolts" nowadays which makes some older routes seem underbolted. I always bolt so an average sized climber can clip ( I'm 5ft 7 ) from a good hold (if possible). I think you're describing an idealized "easy" sport climb scenario.

There's always a (possible) decking issue. Have younger (newer) climbers gotten blase about bolted climbs, thinking that it's a sport climb it must be safe? That attitude will get you seriously fucked up eventually.

safe climbing -----------------dave

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Bolt it and they will come.

For better or worse, this is very true. -Chad

And thus remains an excellent reason for not doing so...

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Bolt it and they will come.

For better or worse, this is very true. -Chad

And thus remains an excellent reason for not doing so...

:tup:

 

 

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