Badass of the week: Reinhold Messner

[mzvarner]

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/messner.html

[JosephH]

Of the week? Hell, most mountaineering done since is simply tourism. More like badass of the decade and every decade since.

[mzvarner]

idk that i would say "tourism" Steve House, vince anderson, colin haley, all putting up some pretty impressive ascents

[telemarker]

"8,000 meters is the beginning of what's known today as the "Death Zone", where lack of oxygen causes severe loss of strength, and the brain stops functioning the way it's supposed to, causing normal people to freak out, do stupid shit, become retarded, and then die."

 

Never have I seen the effects of altitude explained so clearly!

[JosephH]

idk that i would say "tourism" Steve House, vince anderson, colin haley, all putting up some pretty impressive ascents

 

They're like .001 percent of ascents? My point was once Habeler and Messner showed what could be done alpine without Oxygen, all the expeditions since have been tourism.

[mzvarner]

ok, in that respect i agree with you josephH

[Raindawg]

From the wise and prophetic Reinhold Messner, "The Murder of the Impossible"(1971):

 

"Expansion bolts are taken for granted nowadays; they are kept to hand just in case some difficulty cannot be overcome by ordinary methods. Today's climber doesn't want to cut himself off from the possibility of retreat: he carries his courage in his rucksack, in the form of bolts and equipment. Rock faces are no longer overcome by climbing skill, but are humbled, pitch by pitch, by methodical manual labor; what isn't done today will be done tomorrow. Free-climbing routes are dangerous, so the are protected by pegs. Ambitions are no longer build on skill, but on equipment and the length of time available. The decisive factor isn't courage, but technique; an ascent may take days and days, and the pegs and bolts counted in the hundreds. Retreat has become dishonorable, because everyone knows

now that a combination of bolts and singlemindedness will get you up anything, even the most repulsive-looking direttissima.

 

 

 

Times change, and with them concepts and values. Faith in equipment has replaced faith in oneself; a team is admired for the number of bivouacs it makes, while the courage of those who still climb "free" is derided as a manifestation of lack of conscientiousness.

Who has polluted the pure spring of mountaineering?

 

The innovators perhaps wanted only to get closer to the limits of possibility. Today, however, every single limit has vanished, been erased. In principle, it didn't seem to be a serious matter, but ten years have sufficed to eliminate the word 'impossible' from the mountaineering vocabulary.

 

 

 

Progress? Today, ten years from the start of it all, there are a lot of people who don't care where they put bolts, whether on new routes or on classic ones. People are drilling more and more and climbing less and less.

 

 

 

"Impossible": it doesn't exist anymore. The dragon is dead, poisoned, and the hero Siegfried is unemployed. Not anyone can work on a rock face, using tools to bend it to his own idea of possibility.

 

 

 

Some people foresaw this a while ago, but they went on drilling, both on direttissimas and on other climbs, until the lost the taste for climbing: why dare, why gamble, when you can proceed in perfect safety? And so they become the prophets of the direttissima: "Don't waste your time on classic routes - learn to drill, learn to use your equipment. Be cunning: If you want to be successful, use every means you can get round the mountain. The era of direttissima has barely begun: every peak awaits its plumbline route. There's no rush, for a mountain can't run away - nor can it defend itself."

 

 

[el jefe]

mods, move this thread to the old fuddy-duddy forum please.

[Raindawg]

mods, move this thread to the old fuddy-duddy forum please.

 

Messner is apparently an "old fuddy-duddy" because the greatest climber of all time disagrees with today's ethically selfish and lazy majority?, (and even more so because I agree with him)?

 

Truth hurts, eh?

 

[kevbone]

Messner is apparently an "old fuddy-duddy" because the greatest climber of all time disagrees with today's ethically selfish and lazy majority?

 

Lynn Hill disagrees with todays ethically selfish and lazy majority? When did that happen?

[eldiente]

Raindawg, you are aware that your hero Messner supports young kids rap bolting alpine peaks right? If Mesnner can change his mind, perhaps you can too?

 

http://www.redbull.com.au/cs/Satellite/en_AU/Article/Amountaintoclimb-021242790000909

 

 

 

 

[djdan]

I often wonder at the resistance put up by the modern, primarily sport climbing world at the mere suggestion that some of their forebears were more apt, more determined and more committed than they. Sure, Raindawg is good at beating a dead horse but if the best you can muster as a response is some ad hominem about him being old then perhaps your position needs re-assessing. Individuals like Messner, Bonatti, etc set such a terrifically high standard that the majority of climbers today cannot seem to fathom how far out of their league they really are (if they are aware of them at all). These guys melded absurd physical capacity with creativity and, I would say, spirituality. By comparison todays sport climbers are just jerking it for the camera. Now, understand, I like jerking it just as much as the next guy. I sport climb and I enjoy it. However, I have no qualms about recognizing what others have done and putting my contribution in realistic context. So what say you? What keeps you from being able to recognize the contributions of others that may outweigh your own? Is it ego? Is it vanity? Or is it just a standard characteristic of youth that has not been tempered with wisdom? In which case maybe associated posts could be moved to the "Self Absorbed Children" category. Thats a reference to the fuddy-duddy comment. You see how I did that?

[el jefe]

djdan, i'm sorry to have to inform you that you definitely show signs of premature fuddy-duddy syndrome: you apparently have no sense of humor whatsoever, a fact which, taken together with such an advanced level of pomposity in one so young, points to a very poor long-term prognosis. you should seek help right away, although chances are good that it may already be too late for you.

[billcoe]

I often wonder at the resistance put up by the modern, primarily sport climbing world at the mere suggestion that some of their forebears were more apt, more determined and more committed than they. Sure, Raindawg is good at beating a dead horse but if the best you can muster as a response is some ad hominem about him being old then perhaps your position needs re-assessing. Individuals like Messner, Bonatti, etc set such a terrifically high standard that the majority of climbers today cannot seem to fathom how far out of their league they really are (if they are aware of them at all). These guys melded absurd physical capacity with creativity and, I would say, spirituality. By comparison todays sport climbers are just jerking it for the camera. Now, understand, I like jerking it just as much as the next guy. I sport climb and I enjoy it. However, I have no qualms about recognizing what others have done and putting my contribution in realistic context. So what say you? What keeps you from being able to recognize the contributions of others that may outweigh your own? Is it ego? Is it vanity? Or is it just a standard characteristic of youth that has not been tempered with wisdom? In which case maybe associated posts could be moved to the "Self Absorbed Children" category. Thats a reference to the fuddy-duddy comment. You see how I did that?

 

Good stuff djdan ! Messner was a badass of the century as JH noted above. He shares that distinction with some others as well. Everyone knows about the no O2 thing, but Messners free solo first ascent of what later turned out to be a very long and involved 5.9 in the Dolomites was nothing short of earthshaking.

 

Of course, this in no way lessens the fact that Raindawg is still an ass.....

[el jefe]

[quote=Good stuff djdan ! Messner was a badass of the century as JH noted above. He shares that distinction with some others as well. Everyone knows about the no O2 thing, but Messners free solo first ascent of what later turned out to be a very long and involved 5.9 in the Dolomites was nothing short of earthshaking.

 

Of course, this in no way lessens the fact that Raindawg is still an ass.....

 

there you have it, djdan, you've received the billcoe seal of approval -- one of the more prestigious honors here at cc.com.

[djdan]

Heres a bit of humor for ya. Somewhat on topic:

[mrpink]

why would they put a quote from viesturs up, especially after talking shit about messner in an interview!!

[Choada_Boy]

Blah Blah Blah

 

You're boring. Didn't Messner leave his brother for dead and go for the summit on Nanga Parbat? He's also been licking Dave Lama's balls lately.

[Off_White]

Messner is apparently an "old fuddy-duddy" because the greatest climber of all time disagrees with today's ethically selfish and lazy majority?

 

A sports climber has to be slim and light because otherwise he wouldn’t be able to pull up his own weight – like this, you can still reach the highest technical level in the mountains. I’m excited to see your generation taking over the peak performers of today, although that might still take some time.