I owe the gun zealots here an apology

[Lucky Larry]

If you own a car, you're statistically more likely to get in a car crash. Unless you keep it in your garage and don't use it.

 

I was told this argument is irrelevant to the subject; nun the less it's true. Hence, make driving and guns illegal.

[Hugh Conway]

more nun's. hot and naked running through the streets.

[rob]

i want to put a nun on a pedal stole.

[denalidave]

Better to have a gun (and know how to use it) and not need it than be dead because you did not. Could be a gun, knife, whatever. Banning them does not stop people from dying from them. Guns are like any other "tool". Yes, they should be regulated, perhaps more than they are in most states.

[Lucky Larry]

more nun's. hot and naked running through the streets.

 

Watt nunsense.

 

How do you solve a problem like Maria?; Julia Andrews-Sound of Music

 

This is when they kicked Maria out of the convent to join the major as his ninny: I'd rather be a nun on weed then a nun on my knees who can't serve the masters manly needs because of vows not please.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Lucky Larry

[rob]

Better to have a gun (and know how to use it) and not need it than be dead because you did not. Could be a gun, knife, whatever. Banning them does not stop people from dying from them. Guns are like any other "tool". Yes, they should be regulated, perhaps more than they are in most states.

 

What kind of guns are acceptable tools? Are nuclear weapons acceptable tools? Tanks and heavy machine guns? "Assault rifles?" High-capacity magazines? What is acceptable for personal defense, and what should be prohibited to protect the masses? Where do YOU draw the line?

[Off_White]

I've heard of a legitimate instance where not wearing a seat belt actually saved someone's life. Does that mean we should all not wear seat belts?

 

That's the difference between anecdotes and statistics.

[denalidave]

Better to have a gun (and know how to use it) and not need it than be dead because you did not. Could be a gun, knife, whatever. Banning them does not stop people from dying from them. Guns are like any other "tool". Yes, they should be regulated, perhaps more than they are in most states.

 

What kind of guns are acceptable tools? Are nuclear weapons acceptable tools? Tanks and heavy machine guns? "Assault rifles?" High-capacity magazines? What is acceptable for personal defense, and what should be prohibited to protect the masses? Where do YOU draw the line?

If you like to harvest your own food guns are an excellent "tool". I'm not a hunter anymore, but when I did, I ate what I shot. Shooting an intruder that intends to rape your wife and kill your kids would be another example when a weapon is also a "tool". "Never bring a knife to a gun fight."

 

Not sure where the line should be drawn, but our society is way past having no guns. As it is, the criminals have plenty, so the good guys should have them too. We cannot undo this reality.

 

If I ever were to buy any more guns, I'd get one that has the computer chip in it and only works in my hand. Never seen one, but I'd guess they are still on the market.

 

Again, I guess we should ban cars too... Look how many people get killed by drunk driver's. It's all the cars fault.

 

[Nitrox]

Computer chipped guns have never been available commercially, at least not in viable numbers or price ranges

[denalidave]

So here is an example that happened in my own family. My Dad was stationed in Alaska when he was in Air Force. He always carried his 44 Mag when he went out in the bush fishing, for bear protection. He never needed it for that. However, he usually kept it in the old Volvo wagon, with the holster belt strapped around the steering column. One day, the family is driving on one of the long, open, and mostly vacant highways when a couple thugs tried running them off the road. I'd guess they were trying to car jack the fam. Pops got the 44 mag about half-way out of the holsters and the would be assailants decided to get the hell out of Dodge. I often wonder how that would have turned out if he was unarmed? That story is the folk lore of legend in our family.

 

Along with when my Dad was a kid, he hated limberger cheese, so when Grandma brought a bunch home, he hid it. Some time later, they could not find where the horrible smell was coming from. Turns out, he hid it behind the radiator. But I digress...

[Nitrox]

Better to have a gun (and know how to use it) and not need it than be dead because you did not. Could be a gun, knife, whatever. Banning them does not stop people from dying from them. Guns are like any other "tool". Yes, they should be regulated, perhaps more than they are in most states.

 

What kind of guns are acceptable tools? Are nuclear weapons acceptable tools? Tanks and heavy machine guns? "Assault rifles?" High-capacity magazines? What is acceptable for personal defense, and what should be prohibited to protect the masses? Where do YOU draw the line?

 

Rob, would you please tell me in your own words what you consider to be a "High-Capacity" magazine and "Assault Rifle"?

 

Not trying to be a dick, its clear who lines up on which side of the debate and I see these terms thrown around a lot but I often wonder if their meaning is ever really considered.

 

 

[G-spotter]

If you owe the gun nuts an apology then do the gun nuts need to apologise to us for, say

 

http://blog.timesunion.com/crime/sheriff-boy-finds-fathers-gun-accidently-kills-friend/6259/

 

This?

 

Or

 

http://www.myfoxla.com/dpp/news/local/brothers-found-shot-to-death-in-chino-hills-20100727

 

This?

 

or

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/03/national/main3783542.shtml?source=mostpop_story

 

This?

 

I mean, anybody can have a battle of anecdotes. You need to look at which side has the most anecdotes.

[Off_White]

My friend Micky Judge shot his younger brother Jamie dead through the bathroom door, just playing a game. Must have been 9th grade or so.

 

My nephew accidentally shot his best friend, and while it was just a pellet gun, the friend did indeed lose an eye.

 

I don't own a gun because I've never been in a situation where having one would make anything any better. I'm okay with living in a society where you get to make your own decision about that sort of thing, and I certainly know lots of responsible gun owners, but I don't think armed populace makes the US a safer place.

[stevetimetravlr]

20 years ago I was selling my fin manufacturing company to a company in Long Beach, CA. I had to go down and set up the manufacturing process and while I was there, I got to know the manager pretty well. he was very anti-gun, and also happened to live very near some rough areas of town in LA. We got into a discussion of what would happen if someone were to break into his house, and he was adament that he would not use a gun to hurt anyone, etc. it wasn't worth his posessions,etc. I raised the question what about the safety of his wife and child. He still did not feel he needed a gun. After I left, several months later, the Rodney King verdict happened, and the huge riots went down and they were looting and burning the area right near his house, killing people, etc. I get a phone call from him asking me if i could PLEASE Fedex him a handgun,rifle,anything. As he had determined that it was the only thing that would save him and his family if it came to it. I'm not a gun nut, but I'm also a realist, and if the other guy has a gun, you better also. It took the actually seeing it in person for him to be convinced.

[denalidave]

When I was in high school, a couple buddies of mine were cleaning their guns and one of them went to grab the gun, which had a hair trigger. When he pulled the gun across the bed by the end of the barrel, it went off and killed him. A very tragic thing to happen to a kid, but it was user error that caused it. NEVER PLAY WITH LOADED GUNS. NEVER POINT A GUN AT SOMETHING UNLESS YOU INTEND TO SHOOT IT. ALWAYS ASSUME ANY GUN IS LOADED AND TREAT IT THAT WAY. Etc, etc, etc... Twas not the guns fault.

[denalidave]

I also had a teacher in high school that accidentally backed over a little kid while backing out of his driveway. The kid was killed. Again, a terrible, horrible accident. I guess we need to ban cars too. If cars were banned, the kid would not have been killed. The teacher did do a year or so in jail and would sometimes bring the subject up in class and use it a lesson...

[Lucky Larry]

back in the 50' people driving long stretches of highway always packed a pistol eg going to Vegas

[stevetimetravlr]

Larry, was that just in case they ran into sport climbers at Red Rocks?

[tvashtarkatena]

My friend Micky Judge shot his younger brother Jamie dead through the bathroom door, just playing a game. Must have been 9th grade or so.

 

My nephew accidentally shot his best friend, and while it was just a pellet gun, the friend did indeed lose an eye.

 

I don't own a gun because I've never been in a situation where having one would make anything any better. I'm okay with living in a society where you get to make your own decision about that sort of thing, and I certainly know lots of responsible gun owners, but I don't think armed populace makes the US a safer place.

 

My ex room mate Juan was shot point blank through the chest with a .38 when he was eight by a friend. He's still go the entrance and exit scars. The bullet missed his aorta by a few mm, according to his surgeon.

[rob]

What about driving a car that was designed specifically for runnign people down, with a cow-catcher on the front and side spikes? Should that be allowed?

[pu]

what if what if what if. You guys are boring. Accidents with firearms are tragic and sad. Poor training and supervision are to blame. If someone wants to kill you without a gun they will get it done. Violence is the issue. Look at how people are getting offed in the UK lately. Gang knife attacks that are successful. This is NOT one knife attack. Multiple knives, multiple attackers. GREAT SUCCESS!! But, the beat goes on. Blah, blah, blah. Do you believe that the second amendment exists because our founding fathers were sportsmen? They had recently revolted against a tyranical government. Now, I am a practical fellow. I believe fully auto weapons should be VERY HARD to acquire. I also am not super psyched about these militia types that hang around our areas. However, I am taking personal responsibility for my own training and own defense. I have acquired self defense training and I own guns. I take great care to avoid being vulnerable but, I also know that there are times when certain tools or training could become necessary. Like the previous seatbelt argument stated. Every once in a while someone survives some horrendous accident unbelted. However, I am not that guy. In fact, I am not as lucky as that guy. I will provide for my own safety now by wearing a seatbelt. I am also inclined take care of myself if I should end up in a bad situation. I choose to wear a seatbelt. Wear a Helmet. Stay out of harm's way. Pack some personal protection.

[rob]

"defense against tyranny" is a funny argument. If that's what you believe, and what our founding fathers intended, then why not allow the sale of artillery and tanks, bombs and fighter jets, as well? Inconsistent.

 

Everybody agrees that SOME arms should be banned. RIght? I shouldn't be able to buy a nuclear weapon, should I? So, if we're all in agreement on that, then we all support gun control (of some form.) The question is, where do we draw the line? I imagine we all believe that there IS a line.

 

And how do you define "The line?" Artillery? "Assualt" rifles? I'm interested to know how the NRA suggests drawing this line. It's not such an easy, simple thing, is it? The second ammendment doesn't say "guns," it says "arms."

 

So, why is it OK to ban *some* arms and not others? There is nothing worse than someone with an inconsistent argument who also has a self-righteous attitude that he's somehow protecting the right to "bear arms." No you're not. You support gun-control. You just draw a different line than the "liberals" do, or whatever. Don't pretend you're better than them.

 

But you both have a line. Fucking tempest in a teapot. You've already lost your "Arms" -- now you're all arguing about fucking pea-shooters. You think the military is concerned about the 10mm pistol I keep under my mattress? They've already removed the arms that would offer them a sincere threat. Imagine if George Washington didn't have any cannon. Or the French Navy in his back pocket. Laughable.

Edited February 20, 2011 by rob

[Nitrox]

Rob, state laws veri but in most states you can privately own cannons, rifled artillery, explosives, machineguns, tanks (with live cannons), etc. I'm not familiar with FAA regs so you may be right about the jets (and nukes).

 

 

[rob]

If I had a tank I could really run down some cyclists

[pu]

Rob, I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Granted I don't know of any studies but I am going to assume that most people are in favor of even the simplest of regulations for many things. For example. No pissing in the well. Many people could get behind something like that. Possibly even the personal freedom types.

 

As far as nukes go i have to agree with you. I draw the line at personal nuclear weaponry. It is a poor tactical decision to use one on your own government or anywhere near yourself or others if you have any interest in sticking around. Who knows, Maybe if the technology gets better and the price becomes more affordable I could add one to my personal protection arsenal.

 

Sporting is an excellent use for firearms and a nice way to enjoy being out from in front of the keyboard or tv. However, Defense against tyranny of all sizes is a legitimate reason to bear arms. I do believe it is a last resort. India and Egypt have shown us how it can be handled peacefully.

 

Rob, If we your all or nothing reasoning to our everday life then

we could be faced with dilemmas like....

 

No more drivers licensing OR as soon as your born you get a license.

 

Legalize and de regulate ALL drugs or Ban all drugs. No in between. Kiss your ibuprofen goodbye.