Kimmo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Hmmmm, the first thing I found was an extensive pew poll about how content Muslims are in America: happy koran-reading muslims. mebbe it was a different poll you are talking about? i'm curious how this "violent" religion you speak of becomes so non-violent here in the US. could it be because it isn't simply about the religion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 That you, somehow, have gained enlighment, and the rest of us have cultural blinders on, is going down a familar path I'd rather not purse. POTD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 That you, somehow, have gained enlighment, and the rest of us have cultural blinders on, is going down a familar path I'd rather not purse. POTD hey, i'm not always a big fan of the ACLU's International Director of Operations, but if the shoe fits.... I'd further posit that we ALL have cultural blinders on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Hmmmm, the first thing I found was an extensive pew poll about how content Muslims are in America: happy koran-reading muslims. mebbe it was a different poll you are talking about? i'm curious how this "violent" religion you speak of becomes so non-violent here in the US. could it be because it isn't simply about the religion? Yes, pretty much completely non-violent, as compared with evangelicals and the policies they support...at least in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 what gets me is how many of the Saud family have blown themselves up, being Muslim and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Hmmmm, the first thing I found was an extensive pew poll about how content Muslims are in America: happy koran-reading muslims. mebbe it was a different poll you are talking about? i'm curious how this "violent" religion you speak of becomes so non-violent here in the US. could it be because it isn't simply about the religion? Non-violent compared to what? Quakerism? Seventh Day Adventism? Deism? Are you using a US population weighted index of terror plot participation? Are we comparing vs Arab-American christians, Jews, secularists, etc here? http://pewglobal.org/files/pdf/248.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 maybe they are not really muslim. only those who blow themselves up are truly muslim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Hmmmm, the first thing I found was an extensive pew poll about how content Muslims are in America: happy koran-reading muslims. mebbe it was a different poll you are talking about? i'm curious how this "violent" religion you speak of becomes so non-violent here in the US. could it be because it isn't simply about the religion? Non-violent compared to what? Quakerism? Seventh Day Adventism? Deism? Are you using a US population weighted index of terror plot participation? Are we comparing vs Arab-American christians, Jews, secularists, etc here? http://pewglobal.org/files/pdf/248.pdf non-violent compared to suicide bombers (you know, the definition of Islam, per you) and those who support them, silly! now answer the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 http://pewglobal.org/files/pdf/248.pdf what are you pointing to with this pew survey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 TTK's got a valid point. If you're a fundamentalist Christian in the US and you want to go fight god's holy war, the US Military is a perfect outlet for that desire, and is more than happy to support that interpretation. Maybe we should all be thankful for that, because focusing instead on heretics close to home is part of that whole Sunni-Shia thing, and that is just grim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Evangelism may have inspired a bunch of country boys to sign up, but limiting its effect to merely that misses its much larger effect on federal decision making at the highest level - it has been a key booster in our push for war and ever greater military spending, much of which is offensive in capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 God told Bush to attack Iraq. Really. It was The Christian God of Mercy. Only problem is, when you are the Christian prez of the US, your militant missions take out a few more innocents than any "suicide" bomber could ever manage to (twin towers included). Religion of Violence indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Lots of it - but if simple repression was the answer we'd have seen a proportional number of Arab secularists, etc detonating themselves in Western discos. We haven't. Here come the usual canard about islamic terror in pizza and ice cream parlors. There has been plenty of Arab secularists who resorted to terror, as well as judeo-christian at different times of history, including today. It isn't clear what you and Harris reproach to muslims: is it that they commit suicide or that they commit acts of terror? Western and other cultures are as guilty of terror despite your and Harris' unexplainable blindness. Harris claims that mass murders of innocent civilians by judeo-christians are a thing of the past but it is a lie as Iraq in general and Fallujah in particular attest to. Your and Harris' arguments are thinly veiled islamophobia, and the few non-brown people who are Muslims don't make your arguments any less racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 and for the record, although I did agree with R. Scheer's remarks in this discussion (kind of listened to it while multitasking), I quite often disagree with him. I find Chris Hedges however quite impressive intellectually a lot of the time, surprisingly even when he talks about his religious faith, although I have been an atheist for nearly 40 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 and what percentage of the muslim world lives under autocratic control, propped by western interests, either now or very recent history? Lots of it - but if simple repression was the answer we'd have seen a proportional number of Arab secularists, etc detonating themselves in Western discos. We haven't. We'd also be remarking upon the complete absence of suicide bombers originating from Muslim communities in liberal western democracies, but we aren't. We'd probably also see the propensity for engaging in acts of suicide bombing against civilians decreasing with wealth and education, but if anything, we're seeing vastly more doctors, engineers, and relatively privileged individuals than we are bedouin goatherds engaged in terrorism. Finally - we'd also see an equal propensity for such violence across all belief groups who have been subject to sustained political repression, and we aren't. If this was any other ideology - people wouldn't have such a difficult time connecting the dots. Unbelievable. Your implication: Egyptians don't feel repressed because they're not blowing themselves up? It's called patronizing. Perhaps Egyptians might be as complex as we are. Perhaps their desires for self determination aren't so very different from ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 If you're a fundamentalist Christian in the US and you want to go fight god's holy war, the US Military is a perfect outlet for that desire, and is more than happy to support that interpretation. Give me a fucking break. You can do better than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12351125 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 If you're a fundamentalist Christian in the US and you want to go fight god's holy war, the US Military is a perfect outlet for that desire, and is more than happy to support that interpretation. Give me a fucking break. You can do better than this. Sleeping through the past ten years again Kojak? It's a pretty well documented phenomenon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 And another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 And another... [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Thank's Prole, that Harpers article in your first link is what I had in mind when I made my statement. K-guy, it's worth taking the time to read. I stand by my statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Our fundies are a much greater threat to our liberal secular democracy than their fundies, as history clearly shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Thank's Prole, that Harpers article in your first link is what I had in mind when I made my statement. K-guy, it's worth taking the time to read. I stand by my statement. Yeah, "proof positive" that (the majority) of our military volunteers do so to partake in a holy war and kill muslims. Any flimsy "evidence"/excuse to prop up liberal moral relativism and self-hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyHzhtARf8M&feature=player_embedded# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 And another. What are you going to have engraved on your hand-gun for your scary excursions onto the streets of Everett, the Baghdad of the PNW, Prole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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