before u start bitch'n'bout beacon

[JosephH]

Joe, I'm curious why you haven't thrown a big fit about the recent sport climbs on the NW face since you're so indignant over Ivan's route?

Good question. Shane went through the fixed pro application process with the BRSP for all of those routes, the first two I and a couple of other folks got to [informally] comment on (Head Case & Siege Tactics) but the next four we weren't notified for commenting and Erik/Lisa let them go by without external comment, I'm guessing thinking we would be alright with these additional lines as well. I wouldn't have been, but that's the sort of problem that will exist until there is a formal public comment arrangement setup as part of a revised CMP.

[JosephH]

Fair enough if you NEVER clip the bolts. Otherwise, is see a bit of hypocrisy in ZERO sport climbing at Beacon.

Nah, what's done is done is done and if it were up to me most of them would get chopped, but it's not so I use them sometimes.

[genepires]

where do I get a permit (or verbal permission) from JoeH to climb in beacon rock?

Does JoeH hand out annual permits for washingtonians to climb there?

[JosephH]

Then again, you won't be making that mistake again.

No I won't be because, other than getting you to finally make a point after endless mewling, you made it clear in the response that you're a dick. What would be the point?

[tvashtarkatena]

Sweeeeet. Like wiping something off my shoe.

Edited February 13, 2011 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

I think the takeaway here is that no amount of whining from innernutz takes away from the joy of good friends embarked on an excellent adventure in a beautiful place. Kinda what it's all about, no?

[denalidave]

where do I get a permit (or verbal permission) from JoeH to climb in beacon rock?

Does JoeH hand out annual permits for washingtonians to climb there?

[JosephH]

I think the takeaway here is that no amount of whining from innernutz takes away from the joy of good friends embarked on an excellent adventure in a beautiful place. Kinda what it's all about, no?

When fifty fixed pro placements are required for your adventure - no, that's not what it's about.

[stevetimetravlr]

I think the takeaway here is that no amount of whining from innernutz takes away from the joy of good friends embarked on an excellent adventure in a beautiful place. Kinda what it's all about, no?

When fifty fixed pro placements are required for your adventure - no, that's not what it's about.

When it is a 7 pitch route that requires bolt anchors for belays and hauling, and Ivan made the call to leave pins and peckerheads insitu instead of beating out the rock, it is what its all about.

[ivan]

When fifty fixed pro placements are required

you keep hyperbolizing the # - there are 26 lead bolts over 7 pitches - every pin could be pulled, and thus not be considered a fixed placement, but you don't want that, and in fact no dout would bitch about it if i did!

 

bet you keep saying 50 though...

[JosephH]

I think the takeaway here is that no amount of whining from innernutz takes away from the joy of good friends embarked on an excellent adventure in a beautiful place. Kinda what it's all about, no?

When fifty fixed pro placements are required for your adventure - no, that's not what it's about.

When it is a 7 pitch route that requires bolt anchors for belays and hauling???, and Ivan made the call to leave pins and peckerheads insitu instead of beating out the rock, it is what its all about.

No, it's not - not at Beacon or anywhere else these days. In 1975, sure, but not today.

[stevetimetravlr]

Joe, you could go to Yosemite or the upper Town Wall and put up a new route like this and it would be applauded. There is nothing wrong with C2+ climbing. Of course Ivan could pull the fixed pieces and then it would be A2+, whats your preference? We know what your preference is, and that is that no one climb at Beacon but you, but sorry, its not your personal arena. and yes hauling, hauling bivy gear, I challenge you to go out and do this climb in a day. Lets see it, money where your mouth is. I'm not saying it can't or won't be done soon enough especially in the long days of summer, but its not a gimme. Maybe if you actually climbed the route your opinion might carry some weight since you would be somewhat educated on what you are discussing.

[Fairweather]

When fifty fixed pro placements are required

you keep hyperbolizing the # - there are 26 lead bolts over 7 pitches - every pin could be pulled, and thus not be considered a fixed placement, but you don't want that, and in fact no dout would bitch about it if i did!

 

bet you keep saying 50 though...

 

The great bolt debate aside for a moment, I just want to know where you were able to find hardware strong enough to support that fat bastard.

[JosephH]

Joe, you could go to Yosemite or the upper Town Wall and put up a new route like this and it would be applauded.

You're delusional. Put this up on the Captain tomorrow and you'd be run out of the Valley and roundly pilloried from every quarter on ST.

 

There is nothing wrong with C2+ climbing. Of course Ivan could pull the fixed pieces and then it would be A2+, whats your preference? We know what your preference is, and that is that no one climb at Beacon but you, but sorry, its not your personal arena. and yes hauling, hauling bivy gear, I challenge you to go out and do this climb in a day.

It wasn't C2 climbing, it's was A2 and only C2 now that the pins left in which they should be now that it's a done deal. And let's not make this out to be the Shield or something, Beacon is only so tall and you're talking six pitches of any real climbing and no matter how you stack it your talking about four 60s of climbing if that. Four 60s of C2 aid ought to be manageable in a day.

 

Maybe if you actually climbed the route your opinion might carry some weight since you would be somewhat educated on what you are discussing.

Hey, I don't need to hike the stairs in the Empire State building to know what it's about and I don't need to do this route to know that's it's a completely retro nail and drill up job. It doesn't represent any kind of advance in climbing at Beacon and isn't anything that McGown wasn't doing in '75. It was done for sheer entertainment purposes and it's pretty damn sad miker is the only one here capable of talking honestly about it. You guys can grab each others' asses and drown the thing in lipstick all you for all I care, but it isn't going to change what it is.

[JosephH]

When fifty fixed pro placements are required

you keep hyperbolizing the # - there are 26 lead bolts over 7 pitches - every pin could be pulled, and thus not be considered a fixed placement, but you don't want that, and in fact no dout would bitch about it if i did!

 

bet you keep saying 50 though...

The point isn't pins or bolts - it's that it took 50 non-clean points of aid to get up the thing because there wasn't a line there that could be realized any other way - that's why no one had done it before you, not that they didn't see it, check it out, or seriously consider it, but because no one would resort to that and also that most of us were looking for as free as possible a line.

[stevetimetravlr]

 

Another one of your typical responses Joe. Evasively sidestepping the issues and throwing up a smokescreen of bullshit. I'm pretty amazed at how you know so much about Yosemite and Index ethics and climbs without ever climbing there. Sorry, what you say is inaccurate and untrue.

[JosephH]

Another one of your typical responses Joe. Evasively sidestepping the issues and throwing up a smokescreen of bullshit. I'm pretty amazed at how you know so much about Yosemite and Index ethics and climbs without ever climbing there. Sorry, what you say is inaccurate and untrue.

No evasiveness whatsoever - those last two posts are simple and absolute statements of fact. Hey, tell you what, you take the topo from the first page of this thread and post it up on ST and say you're interested in putting up a line like this somewhere on the right side of the East Face of the Captain or on Sentinel, say between SS and CH and see how you make out with that proposition. Please, though you may want to invent a new logon to post it under as 'Studly' won't be worth much over there if you post it under it.

[stevetimetravlr]

hmmm, does the chossy mossy NW face of Beacon resemble at all the above mentioned areas Joseph? If Ivan could put a route up on the east side of the Captain that used such a minimum amount of hardware, he'd be a hero. but the fact remains that once again you like to compare apples to oranges. I have no problem with bringing it over to Supertopo, all you can handle.

[ivan]

never met mcgown - sounds like you're saying he didn't climb for fun? sounds like you're mythologizing him for your own purposes: like the russians, he didn't even take a dump w/o a plan to push the limits of human ability and the glory of Beacon!!!

 

only 1 bolt is there for hauling purposes, and that one not b/c hauling w/o it was impossible, but b/c w/o it you're virtually certain to rain down rocks all over the base

 

steve, the route has actually been done in a day on several occasions already (though it hasn't been soloed in a day)

 

 

[genepires]

page count:

 

bolting cerro torre = 3 pages of flames, yelling and somewhat cordial discussion

 

bolting beacon rock = 7 pages of inferno, screaming and full on hatin'

 

this makes sense due to the obvious supreme importance of beacon over cerro torre.

 

carry on gentlemen!

[JosephH]

never met mcgown - sounds like you're saying he didn't climb for fun? sounds like you're mythologizing him for your own purposes...

If you met McGown I seriously doubt you'd 'mythologizing' him, I wouldn't, and I doubt he'd care much for it. He was just a guy who like getting out there and putting up stuff and did a lot of drilling and pounding up in the process; hell, he even pounded stoppers in. My point was that those guys undoubtably looked at that face just like you and I did, and McGown felt no compunction at all about drilling his way up stuff and even he left it be, as did all the others of the old guard.

 

But at least someone is acknowledging this was just about fun and something to do in the winter. Again, my concern is strictly the precedents it sets both for more of this sort of thing and for the fixed pro count. That many points of non-clean aid is simply asking Beacon to pay a lot of freight for your guys' fun and your collective proclivity towards aid climbing over free.

 

Hmmm, does the chossy mossy NW face of Beacon resemble at all the above mentioned areas Joseph?

Wow, talk about "evasively sidestepping the issues and throwing up a smokescreen of bullshit." Hey, even without the entirely suck precedent there is nowhere on Beacon that deserves to be drilled and pounded up like this.

 

If Ivan could put a route up on the east side of the Captain that used such a minimum amount of hardware, he'd be a hero.

Except that's the complete opposite of what he did - he went with the maximum amount of unclean pro to force a line where there wasn't one. Man, that's like early onset Alzheimers to even try to flip reality upside down like that.

 

But the fact remains that once again you like to compare apples to oranges.

No, it's definitely apple-to-apple. No one considers the left half of Sentinel to be any lesser than the Nose and it wouldn't fly on it either.

 

I have no problem with bringing it over to Supertopo, all you can handle.

Oh, then I'll be expecting that under 'Studly' then, cool. Maybe you can get it up while Chris' 'First Hammerless Ascent of North America Wall' thread is still on the front page and before someone bumps Leo Houlding's Welcome 'The Prophet' - El Cap's Newest Free Route piece back up.

[Raindawg]

Joe...Maybe if you actually climbed the route your opinion might carry some weight since you would be somewhat educated on what you are discussing.

 

Ya, Joe...How dare you comment! Just shut up until you've climbed "Infinite Bliss" and soloed the West Ridge of Everest without oxygen. Ever O.D. on heroin or vote for Mubarek? No? Then your opinion on those subjects are likewise worthless!!! Shut up, Joe!

[Raindawg]

Joe...I challenge you to go out and do this climb in a day. Lets see it, money where your mouth is.

 

 

Really now! "Money where your mouth is..." a vacuous jr.-high bully-taunt second only to "don't write a check your @ss can't cash." :rolleyes:

 

 

[ivan]

never met mcgown - sounds like you're saying he didn't climb for fun? sounds like you're mythologizing him for your own purposes...

If you met McGown I seriously doubt you'd 'mythologizing' him, I wouldn't, and I doubt he'd care much for it. He was just a guy who like getting out there and putting up stuff and did a lot of drilling and pounding up in the process; hell, he even pounded stoppers in. My point was that those guys undoubtably looked at that face just like you and I did, and McGown felt no compunction at all about drilling his way up stuff and even he left it be, as did all the others of the old guard.

 

But at least someone is acknowledging this was just about fun and something to do in the winter. Again, my concern is strictly the precedents it sets both for more of this sort of thing and for the fixed pro count. That many points of non-clean aid is simply asking Beacon to pay a lot of freight for your guys' fun and your collective proclivity towards aid climbing over free.

he and his generation left it alone b/c no one in their right minds would climb on this miserable side if they could just as easily go to east, west or south sides, not out of some deep ethical commitment

 

did i ever say this was about more than having fun, or that my purusit of fun overrode my sense of ethics? that was your assumption, and has nothign to do w/ me. you also make erroneous assumptions that i like to aid-climb more than free. there is essentially zero free climing to be had legally at beacon most of the closure.

 

i think you get off feeling like you're royal robbins or the like - if you need me to be your warren harding i'll be honored to attempt the part, though i doubt, even w/ signficant training, that i could equal his drinking abilities

 

 

[pink]

how about the "forbidden fruit" for a name