murraysovereign Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 And he's been to the middle east, so that means he's an expert. Also station chief in Kabul for a time, vice chair of the NSA, analyst with the Rand Corp, stuff like that, so if you're going to argue with him, bring your "A" game 'cause he's thought about this stuff for quite a while now. Quote
JayB Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Has either AE or KKK even been to a Muslim country? If not, kindly STFU. You're ranting about shit you know fuck all about. Love the fact that you keep trotting this argument out despite the fact that Tawfik Hamid, Ayan Hirsaan Ali, Ibn Warraq, Wafa Sultan, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, have articulated precisely the same arguments. While they are in the distinct minority, the incredibly weak geographic/experiential variant of the ad hominem that you keep rolling out over and over again simply doesn't apply to any of them. Don't give up on that one though! I'm looking forward to equally compelling arguments like "Have *you* ever been beheaded? Well then, you're clearly in no position to make an informed argument against beheading then, are you, hotshot..." Keep them coming. How about applying that one to clitorectomy, etc....? Quote
j_b Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 There are obvioulsy signifigant religious issues contributing to the giant fuckball going on over there. And like western society, their society has unquestionably been influenced by their dominant religion, so it's fair to include Islam in any discussion of the middle east. Islam is undeniably a large part of middle eastern culture. It sure is, but it's no excuse to claim that Islam as a whole is worse than judeo-chritianity based on rhetorical hypocrisy about 'suicide bombers' and 'collateral damage', and big fucking blank in response to the historical record of who used terror, and of colonial-imperialism in the ME. Quote
JayB Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 There are obvioulsy signifigant religious issues contributing to the giant fuckball going on over there. And like western society, their society has unquestionably been influenced by their dominant religion, so it's fair to include Islam in any discussion of the middle east. Islam is undeniably a large part of middle eastern culture. It sure is, but it's no excuse to claim that Islam as a whole is worse than judeo-chritianity based on rhetorical hypocrisy about 'suicide bombers' and 'collateral damage', and big fucking blank in response to the historical record of who used terror, and of colonial-imperialism in the ME. It's not just the slaughter of non-Muslims, it's the entire apparatus of intimidation and repression that has been perpetuated in the name of Islam for centuries, and it's clearly Muslims themselves who have and will continue to bear the brunt of the suffering meted out by Islamists via the death-penalty for apostasy, etc, etc, etc. Even if Islamists hadn't engaged in a single act of aggression against anyone outside of their borders/faith there'd still be plenty for any principled liberal to criticize. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 There are obvioulsy signifigant religious issues contributing to the giant fuckball going on over there. And like western society, their society has unquestionably been influenced by their dominant religion, so it's fair to include Islam in any discussion of the middle east. Islam is undeniably a large part of middle eastern culture. It sure is, but it's no excuse to claim that Islam as a whole is worse than judeo-chritianity based on rhetorical hypocrisy about 'suicide bombers' and 'collateral damage', and big fucking blank in response to the historical record of who used terror, and of colonial-imperialism in the ME. It's not just the slaughter of non-Muslims, it's the entire apparatus of intimidation and repression that has been perpetuated in the name of Islam for centuries, and it's clearly Muslims themselves who have and will continue to bear the brunt of the suffering meted out by Islamists via the death-penalty for apostasy, etc, etc, etc. Even if Islamists hadn't engaged in a single act of aggression against anyone outside of their borders/faith there'd still be plenty for any principled liberal to criticize. the key words are "principled liberal" - which do not apply to your evil homonym Quote
j_b Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 It's not just the slaughter of non-Muslims, it's the entire apparatus of intimidation and repression that has been perpetuated in the name of Islam for centuries, and it's clearly Muslims themselves who have and will continue to bear the brunt of the suffering meted out by Islamists via the death-penalty for apostasy, etc, etc, etc. Even if Islamists hadn't engaged in a single act of aggression against anyone outside of their borders/faith there'd still be plenty for any principled liberal to criticize. more drivel devoid of all historical context, like what were islamic societies before colonialism and what have they been in the 150 years since. Quote
rob Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 There are obvioulsy signifigant religious issues contributing to the giant fuckball going on over there. And like western society, their society has unquestionably been influenced by their dominant religion, so it's fair to include Islam in any discussion of the middle east. Islam is undeniably a large part of middle eastern culture. It sure is, but it's no excuse to claim that Islam as a whole is worse than judeo-chritianity based on rhetorical hypocrisy about 'suicide bombers' and 'collateral damage', and big fucking blank in response to the historical record of who used terror, and of colonial-imperialism in the ME. Yeah, I don't think islam is any worse or better than any other religion. They're just different brands of the same bullshit. You want crazy? Take your pick. Quote
prole Posted February 17, 2011 Author Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) It's not just the slaughter of non-Muslims, it's the entire apparatus of intimidation and repression that has been perpetuated in the name of Islam for centuries, and it's clearly Muslims themselves who have and will continue to bear the brunt of the suffering meted out by Islamists via the death-penalty for apostasy, etc, etc, etc. It's weird how, depending on what works for a particular argument, you'll conflate Islamists with all Muslims in one post and make the clear distinction in another. In one, Islam is at it's core a "cult of death" and that it's followers are hardwired for violence. In another, you quote Muslim moderates and state a desire for a Muslim civilization free from religious tyranny. Are you confused? If the first set of propositions are true, then you are committed to what is essentially a religious war to wipe out Islam and Muslim identity. If it's the latter then you're tasked with investigating the historical roots of particular Islamist movements and supporting the means to arrest their growth. Make up your mind and stop playing both sides of the fence. Edited February 17, 2011 by prole Quote
j_b Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 What's mind boggling is the refusal to consider what we'd be like if we had been conquered before our industrial revolution and the civil war, and our wealth had been captured by tyrants and foreigners. What was the state of human rights in this country at that time? Quote
rob Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I think it's humorous when people refer to the catholic church as "reformed." As if they just decided ON THEIR OWN to stop burning people alive. Quote
Hugh Conway Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 There are obvioulsy signifigant religious issues contributing to the giant fuckball going on over there. And like western society, their society has unquestionably been influenced by their dominant religion, so it's fair to include Islam in any discussion of the middle east. Islam is undeniably a large part of middle eastern culture. It sure is, but it's no excuse to claim that Islam as a whole is worse than judeo-chritianity based on rhetorical hypocrisy about 'suicide bombers' and 'collateral damage', and big fucking blank in response to the historical record of who used terror, and of colonial-imperialism in the ME. It's not just the slaughter of non-Muslims, it's the entire apparatus of intimidation and repression that has been perpetuated in the name of Islam for centuries, and it's clearly Muslims themselves who have and will continue to bear the brunt of the suffering meted out by Islamists via the death-penalty for apostasy, etc, etc, etc. Even if Islamists hadn't engaged in a single act of aggression against anyone outside of their borders/faith there'd still be plenty for any principled liberal to criticize. You ever been to a Muslim country Jay? Quote
Kimmo Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Know what I've heard most about the Muslim world? That they have the best hospitality anywhere. Wow! You *heard* that? Holy shit - that's impressive 2nd-hand info! Dude. He called the fruit picker shortage, and that was from signs on the road. I'd ask him for lotto numbers. Quote
Kimmo Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 on to other news.... an afghani is facing the death sentence for converting to christianity (this sentence is koran-based, yes?) karzai, the president of afghanistan, will not step in to save the man. in other news, 90% of egyptian females have suffered genital mutilation (probably not koran-based; anyone know?). Quote
rob Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I'm glad that you call it mutilation. People that call it female circumcision need to be punched in the face. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 The practice - which appears nowhere in the Koran - is as Islamic as gay reeducation camps are Christian. In other words, not at all. Quote
j_b Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 "Asked what most viewers and observers of Fox News would be surprised to learn about the controversial cable channel, a former insider from the world of Rupert Murdoch was quick with a response: “I don’t think people would believe it’s as concocted as it is; that stuff is just made up.” "We Were a Stalin-esque Mouthpiece for Bush" -- Fox News Insider Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 5 minutes of watching leads most thinking folks to the same conclusion. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) Satire requires cleverness. Meanwhile, our absolute bestest buddy in the Middle East shotguns peaceful protesters in their sleep: vid We've got a navy base there...US response should be interesting. Edited February 17, 2011 by tvashtarkatena Quote
Kimmo Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 I'm glad that you call it mutilation. People that call it female circumcision need to be punched in the face. i call male circumcision "mutilation" also. amazing there are as many adherents as there are, here in the "reformed" US. The Jewish especially seem to get quite up-in-arms about their rights to mutilate their male off-spring. Quote
Hugh Conway Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 i call male circumcision "mutilation" also. amazing there are as many adherents as there are, here in the "reformed" US. < shrug > many women like 'em cut Quote
rob Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 I'm glad that you call it mutilation. People that call it female circumcision need to be punched in the face. i call male circumcision "mutilation" also. amazing there are as many adherents as there are, here in the "reformed" US. The Jewish especially seem to get quite up-in-arms about their rights to mutilate their male off-spring. I get your point, but comparing male circumcision to the barbaric mutilation of female "circumcision" is pretty offensive. It's like the difference between a haircut and a beheading. Quote
Lucky Larry Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) Take yur pick: a mother, or father, that doesn't pull back the foreskin to wash the kids junk(head cheese) or circumcision. Edited February 19, 2011 by Lucky Larry Quote
Kimmo Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 i call male circumcision "mutilation" also. amazing there are as many adherents as there are, here in the "reformed" US. < shrug > many women like 'em cut < shrug > I'm sure many men like 'em cut too Quote
Kimmo Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 I get your point, but comparing male circumcision to the barbaric mutilation of female "circumcision" is pretty offensive. It's like the difference between a haircut and a beheading. Scalping and beheading. Quote
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