Beacon Rock Anchors

[stevetimetravlr]

just walked in the door from rapping Jills Thrill in a rain storm and I was jill thrilled for the rap slings/rings as it makes it so nice to pull the ropes, all 4 raps. I had intended to top out but it rained hard.

So Joseph if you want to put webbings and rap rings on rap anchors, who am I to protest it. I am all for it, stoked.

I was all fired up for Riverside and had extra gear, but just as I started up to the base of it, the skies unleased and had to scurry for cover to LOLP.

 

[num1mc]

I'm not denying that the person should not have removed the anchors, or that they did not know what they were doing. What I am saying, is that when software is used where hardware is the norm, people will mess with it.

 

Manufacturers and OSHA recommend a five year maximum replacement age for fall protection equipment. In the aftermath of Todd Skinners death, many recommended three years for climbing harnesses. With numbers like this bandied about, is it no wonder that three year old rap slings are removed?

 

No matter what it takes, you people have to move into the 90's and start using chains or rap hangers

[denalidave]

Speaking of anchors, I did notice the slings on the top of Windsurfer were starting to get a little frazzled/worn on the outside edges, just where the slings meet/rub on the hangers. Not an integrity issue, for me, but I would not be at all surprised to see them gone if the same guy that cut the tat on YW happens to go over there. Just a heads up, if they happen to not be there next time you are on the route/rap.

Said slings are fine on Windsurfer as well, but I have no doubt our knife-wielding date accountant will have at them all. Again, clueless.

I concur. Just a heads up that some MAY see them as dated/worn.

[stevetimetravlr]

Beacon IS outfitted with rap hangers. Its just the rap hangers are fitted very deluxe with webbing slings and rap rings in a professional manner with zip ties and cleats, and even dated. Its really very nice, but some people question the nylon and cut it and replace it, and this gives Joseph a conniption fit, and rightly so because its work and money to upgrade all the anchors that way as he maintains them. He is probably always going to have grief because people will cut the slings when they question them as stated in the above posts, just the nature of nylon slings I guess.

[num1mc]

Rap hangers don't need slings or rings.

 

Bolt hangers do though

[stevetimetravlr]

Rap hangers don't need slings or rings.

 

Bolt hangers do though

That was my point at the very beginning of this topic. The rings and slings are not needed and people will chop them occasionally. But they do just make pulling the ropes a breeze, which is nice.

[JosephH]

Rap hangers don't need slings or rings. Bolt hangers do though

In some cases that's true, but in other cases it's not, and not all the anchors have slings and rings. Without the slings in some places the pull is going to suck real bad such as windsurfer and the top of FFS.

 

But they do just make pulling the ropes a breeze, which is nice.

Rings are also the tradition at Beacon and the sliding-X configuration makes 'picking' your spot to lay the rappel ropes over the rock clean while still equalizing. And last they make rapping off different sides of some columns possible which I do in a few spots depending on which side of the column I'm headed down.

[kevbone]

Now that Joe and I have established via PM that I may know a thing or two about trad;

 

I'm saying that whenever fixed anchors or the components which make up fixed anchors are used where reasonable people, rightly or wrongly, could assume that environmental conditions have weakened the system, then you should not be surprised when the anchors are altered.

 

Webbing is affected by UV and other conditions. I am sure that you are correct that they remain bomber. But people still have a right to back them up, alter or remove them if they doubt the integrity of the system.

 

Agreed.

 

Problem is....didnt John F state that he was behind a party going up the route? That would me they were not using the webbing to rappel. So they were just being jerks....

 

I am going to agree with JH about the current anchors being totally bomb proof. They absolutely did not need to be cut or replaced.

[kevbone]

or rap hangers

 

There are huge rap hangers on every rappel. There is also webbing too.....

[iain]

There were chains out at Beacon for a few seasons. They are fine but they do wear on the surrounding rock in the off season when monster Gorge winds slap them against the rock 24/7. It must be a sight to behold but it clearly happens a lot up there. I find the anchors at Beacon to be perfect the way they are.

 

I bet you could rap off them 15 years from now and you would still have _plenty_ of strength to spare.

[denalidave]

Beacon IS outfitted with rap hangers. Its just the rap hangers are fitted very deluxe with webbing slings and rap rings in a professional manner with zip ties and cleats, and even dated. Its really very nice, but some people question the nylon and cut it and replace it, and this gives Joseph a conniption fit, and rightly so because its work and money to upgrade all the anchors that way as he maintains them. He is probably always going to have grief because people will cut the slings when they question them as stated in the above posts, just the nature of nylon slings I guess.

Maybe there could be a "memo" addressing the issue on the board? Seems like a reasonable request that should be easy for the park svc. to accommodate???

[denalidave]

Rap hangers don't need slings or rings.

 

Bolt hangers do though

That was my point at the very beginning of this topic. The rings and slings are not needed and people will chop them occasionally. But they do just make pulling the ropes a breeze, which is nice.

That was kind of my thought too. If you did not like the rap slings, why not just run the rope through the rap hangers and leave the slings/ring be? I know it would be bad for the slings when pulling the rope, but better than chopping the tat right then.

[stevetimetravlr]

I think little engraved brass plaques at each belay that explains the longetivity of the webbing, the expiration date, and maybe some commemorative stuff to make interesting reading while you are waiting to rap.

[ivan]

 

I bet you could rap off them 15 years from now and you would still have _plenty_ of strength to spare.

might want to replace the shoestrings i left as anchor tat on pipedream 5 years ago before rapping on 'em though

 

missed you steve - said rain storm struck will i was making my 3rd attempt on silver crow - sigh....

[num1mc]

I think little engraved brass plaques at each belay that explains the longetivity of the webbing, the expiration date, and maybe some commemorative stuff to make interesting reading while you are waiting to rap.

 

Or a plastic doll of Joe with a recording, and when you pull on the slings the doll starts bitching at you, on and on and on.

[denalidave]

I think little engraved brass plaques at each belay that explains the longetivity of the webbing, the expiration date, and maybe some commemorative stuff to make interesting reading while you are waiting to rap.

Like the cool plaques on Dream Wild Turkeys or Yellow Brick Road... Those are pretty cool (IMO).

[denalidave]

I think little engraved brass plaques at each belay that explains the longetivity of the webbing, the expiration date, and maybe some commemorative stuff to make interesting reading while you are waiting to rap.

 

Or a plastic doll of Joe with a recording, and when you pull on the slings the doll starts bitching at you, on and on and on.

Even better. It could also warn of the downward spiral the use of chalk creates..

[JosephH]

True, incompetence and addiction do seem to go hand in hand, maybe the poor sot who did in the anchor had just been using too much of the stuff and got way ahead of himself. At least he wasn't chalking or carving arrows up the route for a second who couldn't follow a rope - another perennial favorite.

[summitchaserCJB]

True, incompetence and addiction do seem to go hand in hand, maybe the poor sot who did in the anchor had just been using too much of the stuff and got way ahead of himself. At least he wasn't chalking or carving arrows up the route for a second who couldn't follow a rope - another perennial favorite.

R U serious? WTheck?

[kevbone]

Yes, he is serious.

[LostCamKenny]

If anyone thinks a three year old, doubled and redundant, hardly-faded-at-all, sling anchor is anything but bomb, they need to go back to sport climbing and skip trad and alpine climbing altogether (and possibly climbing outdoors at all). That and be sure and collect your weenie and paranoia merit badges (especially for going by the date versus the condition of the anchor) - either way you're a regular Boy Scout and probably not ready for the nasty realities of trad climbing.

the webbing is stronger than the rope... replace it when it really needs to be replaced. just because it's faded doesn't mean that it's in need of replacement... JH makes a good point though - if some weathered, faded, and slightly worn webbing makes you feel that you need to replace the slings then you proly don't spend enough time outside.

 

I saw the tat hanging on his harness at the top of 1 and encouraged him to leave any rap tat he finds on other anchors at Beacon. His argument was tat from '07 (it is marked 07) is suspect and by removing it he was doing future newbies a favor by preventing them from top roping off the webbing.

SUSPECT? HOW SO? the sling on that anchor at the top of pitch two was perfectly safe! i saw it yesterday and i almost fell off the rock in amazement that someone thought that they needed to replace it... a real waste of good webbing that would have been better used elsewhere, imo.

[g orton]

I think you're over thinking this when you start dictating webbing at rap anchors as an ethic.

 

Personally, every rap anchor I origanlly placed has been slings, but only because I'm cheap. When I'm at a slinged belay anchor that I don't know the history of I cut the original sling and leave a new one. To suggest other wise is foolish. I do agree that webbing can be pretty mainky and still be strong. I've rappelled off some very bleached white and crusty webbing in the past, but I've never particularly felt any honor in doing so.

 

I do encourage anyone that climbs any routes I've set to leave as much chain or new webbing as they like. The only thing I really promote as an ethic that when it comes to leaving slings is that they be neutral in colour.

Edited August 1, 2010 by g orton

[summitchaserCJB]

LCK- I know you mean well, and you might even be right, but I figure, if you feel any doubt whatsoever- change the webbing. I don't like to encourage people who maybe don't know that much about climbing to push webbing as far as they can. I think that could be misinterpreted. I realized just how strong accessory cord was when I forgot a knife and had to cut it on some rock. Oh my gosh! Took three guys and 10 minutes. But still, I like to be conservative.

[LostCamKenny]

i hear ya guys, both - good arguments and well thought out statements... i won't argue. but it isn't about ethic as much as it is leaving it alone until it needs to be swapped out for something newer-looking...

 

chaser that is by far the coolest avatar pic you've had yet! definitely the tripiest

Edited August 1, 2010 by LostCamKenny

[summitchaserCJB]

haha thanks Kenny.