JosephH Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Please do not alter, replace, remove, or augment the sling/ring anchors out at Beacon. The sling anchors in place are two independent and fully redundant sliding-X of 1" mil-spec webbing with two 50kn SS rings. They'll last a decade no problem, but in any case are dated with the year installed, actively maintained, and replaced every 2-4 years depending on how much traffic a route sees. If you see or suspect a problem with one of the anchors please post up here, or pm me and it will get resolved asap. The reason for the post is the slings were removed on Young Warriors p1 and p2, with the bomb slings/rings on p2 replaced with a merely adequate, non-redundant arrangement and one of the SS rings was taken. Again, the slings on the anchors and raps of all the trade routes in particular out at Beacon need nothing done to them unless they have somehow been damaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Who raps Young Warriors? Never seen anyone rap it except some chick who had dropped her phone from top of the 2nd pitch, and if they do, isn't the bolt hangers good enough for the rare time that they do? Seems wierd to me to be chopping bolts all over Beacon, but then have colored webbing setups at anchor points rarely used for rapping. Not trying to be nagative, but just curious what the reason is? I am ready to be enlightened... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted July 27, 2010 Author Share Posted July 27, 2010 Get's rapped a lot by folks who don't get up p2 or aren't trying to get up p2, ditto for p3. Are we chopping bolts all over Beacon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Makes sense I guess. Bolt chopping I was referring to upper Dastardly where leaving one bolt would have been nice just in case someone slips or something. You fall from up there you will go for the big ride. Then you were talking about chopping the bolts in the rock scar. I'm not against keeping them or chopping them, I was just saying. Also, why not chains instead of nylon? You are the anchor expert, so I am not questioning the decision but just curious. Seems like it is to easy for someone to cut the webbing and take the SS ring, but nobody would mess with chains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 What do you know about those upper Dastardly bolts? As for the bolts at the top of the rock scar, they were temp work anchors, they weren't there before and they aren't necessary now beyond being convenient for monitoring the scar over the next year. But given the precarious nature of the large rock between the top of YW and that anchor I think it's entirely prudent to chop them as soon as possible which I'll be doing later this week when I go up to fix the anchor on YW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 (edited) I know when I went up there last season I couldn't find any real gear placements on that mossy pitch, but I did see a bolt stud with no hanger. I heard (from you)that you had chopped any bolts on that pitch and were removing that last stud as well. Seemed like it would have been prudent to leave one bolt halfway up but the bolt police thought otherwise! Its easy climbing for sure, just mossy chossy. Evidentally the bolts were needed more next to a crack on the other side of Beacon, but now they will be gone also. It seems bolts at Beacon cannot be considered "fixed gear", as they come and go. I am not complaining, just observing. Also, I climbed over that big rock on Young Warriors last week and didn't send it off, whats it going to take, Ivan with a crowbar? Also, you didn't mention why you rigged nylon instead of chains on the rap anchors? Chains are more maintenance free and long lasting, and it seems like you are having people cut the nylon off. Didn't that happen on the se corner last season as well? Again, I'm no expert, just curious as to the reasoning. Edited July 28, 2010 by stevetimetravlr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 The bolt(s) on the last 100 feet of Dasterdly were put there by a local Beacon climber about 5 years ago. He simply did not want to carry a #4. But I do agree they should be left there considering the fall you would take and the rock quality sucks. JH should not be removing the stud in question. He is not the rock police, although he thinks he is. Its Jim that does not want any chain anchors anywere. If you want to remove all the webbing and replace it with chains....do it. You will have JH all up in your ass.....but once again, he does not own Beacon, although he thinks he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 I know when I went up there last season I couldn't find any real gear placements on that mossy pitch, but I did see a bolt stud with no hanger. I heard (from you)that you had chopped any bolts on that pitch and were removing that last stud as well. Seemed like it would have been prudent to leave one bolt halfway up but the bolt police thought otherwise! Its easy climbing for sure, just mossy chossy. One of the then younger climbers went a little bolt crazy up there and on Big Ledge, but didn't have the technique down so left too much bolt out of the rock. That and the bolts he placed in upper Dastardly flew in the face of forty years of tradition of doing it without them. Kind of a "if you can't do it without them, then don't do it" sort of deal. Evidentally the bolts were needed more next to a crack on the other side of Beacon, but now they will be gone also. Are we again talking about the temp work anchor? If so I'm not sure which part of 'temp' and 'work' anchor you're not getting. It seems bolts at Beacon cannot be considered "fixed gear", as they come and go. I am not complaining, just observing. Appropriate bolts and pins should stay fixed, inappropriate stuff should go. There's nothing about bolts making it into rock that graces them with some right-to-be-there. They can be removed just as easy as placed. Also, I climbed over that big rock on Young Warriors last week and didn't send it off, what's it going to take, Ivan with a crowbar? Sure we're talking about the same rock? The one directly in line with you and the anchor when you finish pulling the vertical moves (down and right)? The one barely on there and wedged from behind by a large, long narrow rock? If so, it wouldn't take a crow bar and everyone should refrain from going anywhere near it. It is also so high up and aimed slightly towards the tracks that it's a real good bet it might make it onto them - a bad outcome all the way around if it did. Also, you didn't mention why you rigged nylon instead of chains on the rap anchors? Chains are more maintenance free and long lasting, and it seems like you are having people cut the nylon off. Didn't that happen on the se corner last season as well? Again, I'm no expert, just curious as to the reasoning. The BRSP and WSP SW Resource Coordinator wanted all the chains and colored tat down. The ok was given to replace them with natural colored slings. That and chains suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Chains suck more then webbing? ok.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summitchaserCJB Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Ya how can you say chains suck? They are pretty important to crag climbing as it stands today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 No, they're pretty important to sport climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Appropriate bolts and pins should stay fixed, inappropriate stuff should go. Do you get to decide what is appropriate and what is not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 No, they're pretty important to sport climbing. most of the anchors on The Nose have chains if the deal w/ the park was not to use them then well enough, though i don't understand the reason as chains do come in low vis finishes and holy hell i think bill's got 300 some odd of em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 It doesn't matter to me really one way or another, but for maintenance and weather resistance and vandalism resistance, it seems chains make more sense. I think just plain rap hangers on the bolts actually would be the best. I vote for rap hangers. ok, the ay's have it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Stevetimetravlr.....nobody is stopping you from replacing everything with chains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 I prefer rap anchor hangers instead of chains. I just thought chains are better then webbing is all. I'm to broke and lazy to do anything myself personally. Its way easier to set at my computer and taunt the guys who are out doing all the work like Joseph and Bill and Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summitchaserCJB Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 So long as I can safely rap off the anchor I have no problems. When you talk about using webbing you are talking about an anchor with a pretty fast expiration date. But from what I gather you are dealing with a very specific set of standards that you guys have down there. If you have heavy duty steel rap rings off of bolts that's just as good if not better than chains because you have less complexity and hence less potential failure areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Hey! aren't you the guy doing all the first ascents up at Index and Mt Si? Im not sure how rap rings are any safer or less complicated then rap hangers or chains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summitchaserCJB Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 why do you ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summitchaserCJB Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 (edited) Hey! aren't you the guy doing all the first ascents up at Index and Mt Si? Im not sure how rap rings are any safer or less complicated then rap hangers or chains. A chain is made up of a number of links, most of which are generally thinner than a heavy duty rap ring (or we could say just as thick if it makes people feel better). Having one point of reliance, rather than 8-10 in a chain (any of which could fail) is preferred. I'm not even sure how you rap off of hangers. Care to explain? Do you leave a locker or something? Rig up some sling? In that case, I think it is obvious that this is the worst option. (picture is of what I call a heavy duty rap ring) Edited July 28, 2010 by summitchaserCJB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 'ere we go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
num1mc Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 I'm not even sure how you rap off of hangers. Care to explain? Do you leave a locker or something? Rig up some sling? In that case, I think it is obvious that this is the worst option. http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/rap_hanger.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summitchaserCJB Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 oh sweet. That is cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 It doesn't matter to me really one way or another, but for maintenance and weather resistance and vandalism resistance, it seems chains make more sense. I think just plain rap hangers on the bolts actually would be the best. I vote for rap hangers. ok, the ay's have it... Who hoo, free tat and cool shiny rings. I think it's BOOTY! Wow, my lucky day, there everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Dave, you're going to give Joseph a stroke, poor guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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