beacon bolting question?

[JosephH]

You clearly aren't familiar with the prince of the fine whine...

[geoff]

How do I remove myself from this topic?

[112]

How do I remove myself from this topic?

 

Just stop posting...

[JosephH]

How do I remove myself from this topic?

I would say your comments are always welcome, but I wouldn't want to taint you in the process.

[ivan]

How do I remove myself from this topic?

:lmao:

 

seems strang to me that jim would care so much about rebolting yw, but then being strange is what makes jim so interesting - does seem that having his blessing would have been in order, given that he's still alive and out there all the time, and he sure doesn't see it that way - whatevers...the day i fall onto a bolt on yw is the die i oughta die anyhow

[JosephH]

If I were adding, removing or moving a bolt on YW or any other route then I'd be following the FA's wishes. But not rebolting bad bolts in the face of these comments:

 

I let Jim know what I had in mind, to which he replied, in effect, every bolt on the route was in perfect shape and wouldn't need replacing and could never be replaced without screwing up the route because every bolt was in the 'perfect' spot.

Sorry, all bets were off in the face of that sort of nonsense. Again, the route and the experience of climbing it is completely unaltered from the rebolting - go climb it and tell me otherwise. Rock fall blasting the hand rail off of the top of the p3 crux changed the experience of climbing the route; Jim, Bill and I trundling a ton or two of former holds off of the top of p1 changed it substantially; and folks muscling off a few holds here and there sure did as well - but my rebolting it, not at all. If anyone thinks otherwise then climb it and post up how the experience has changed. Otherwise, it just got new 1/2" SS bolts that will still be pristine when the whiners among you are bitching in your deathbed.

[ivan]

agree in that the new bolts don't change the feel - didn't notice it meself at the time as i was too busy noticing all the other changes you mentioned

 

i do wish jim had been cool w/ it though - agree his comments equalled "no, don't do it," but hten that's the point of getting hte fa's permission - i don't understand how you determine that the bolts were bad - how did you reach that conclusion, especially w/o destroying the bolt in the process?

[stevetimetravlr]

Using the rationalization that Joseph used to re-do Young Warriors, I can do the same thing on Winter Delight. Thank you Joseph.

The clip off the ground is way to perilous, so will have to move the bolt just enough so its easy to clip without worrying about breaking your legs if you come off. But it will be in basically the same place, you'll be able to see the old bolt hole,..yada, yada, yada

No, I wouldn't do that, but I don't think its ok for you to do and then be holier then thou over the rest of us.

[JosephH]

Using the rationalization that Joseph used to re-do Young Warriors, I can do the same thing on Winter Delight. Thank you Joseph.

How so? Again, no bolt got added, removed, or moved - it was rebolted in place exactly as it was. So, how is it exactly you take the fanciful flight from that to retrobolting Winter Delight? It's quite amazing that somehow the distinction between the two is lost on several of you.

 

P.S. If I had been retrobolting it you'd know because the half of the p1 bolts that are completely unnecessary would be gone now.

[Mr. Hands]

When your as bad ass as this.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aMKvykdbpA

 

You can do what ever the fuck you want with bolts.

[pink]

isn't this where bill chimes in and points out how great of a guy joseph is an how we should all thank him for all his hard work....

[pink]

How do I remove myself from this topic?

 

 

lose some weight and there will be less of you here

[stevetimetravlr]

Hey mr Hands, Thanks for posting that even though it wasn't met for you, but my biking/climbing buddies from Seattle. I think you're a friggin troll and a lameass, hiding behind the internet. You just started posting yesterday and you want to step forward and show your face or are you just a chickenshit artist like I think you are?

FYI, that was the first time I used a Silent Partner 3 years ago and I thought was on a 5.6 Broadway, but ended up on the first pitch of Young Warriors by mistake. Whoopde doo, what the fwk business is it of yours what I do?

[Mr. Hands]

Hey mr Hands, Thanks for posting that even though it wasn't met for you, but my biking/climbing buddies from Seattle. I think you're a friggin troll and a lameass, hiding behind the internet. You just started posting yesterday and you want to step forward and show your face or are you just a chickenshit artist like I think you are?

FYI, that was the first time I used a Silent Partner 3 years ago and I thought was on a 5.6 Broadway, but ended up on the first pitch of Young Warriors by mistake. Whoopde doo, what the fwk business is it of yours what I do?

 

HAHA cuz its fucking funny!!! YOUR a troll stevetimetravlr!

[pink]

Hey mr Hands, Thanks for posting that even though it wasn't met for you, but my biking/climbing buddies from Seattle. I think you're a friggin troll and a lameass, hiding behind the internet. You just started posting yesterday and you want to step forward and show your face or are you just a chickenshit artist like I think you are?

FYI, that was the first time I used a Silent Partner 3 years ago and I thought was on a 5.6 Broadway, but ended up on the first pitch of Young Warriors by mistake. Whoopde doo, what the fwk business is it of yours what I do?

 

HAHA cuz its fucking funny!!! YOUR a troll stevetimetravlr!

 

YOU'RE a towel!

[Mr. Hands]

Wanna get high?

[Mr. Hands]

Hey mr Hands, Thanks for posting that even though it wasn't met for you, but my biking/climbing buddies from Seattle. I think you're a friggin troll and a lameass, hiding behind the internet. You just started posting yesterday and you want to step forward and show your face or are you just a chickenshit artist like I think you are?

FYI, that was the first time I used a Silent Partner 3 years ago and I thought was on a 5.6 Broadway, but ended up on the first pitch of Young Warriors by mistake. Whoopde doo, what the fwk business is it of yours what I do?

 

And acctually I started posting the day before yesterday dumbass!

[pink]

ALOHA mr. hands!

[Mr. Hands]

WAZZUP pink!

[billcoe]

isn't this where bill chimes in and points out how great of a guy joseph is an how we should all thank him for all his hard work....

 

Not me dude. I know that he did spend a lot of time and money doing replacements. In my experience, if they're the old steel Rawl 5 pieces, those may be ticking timebombs (although I haven't heard of a failure yet), go for it. But if they are regular old rusty steel wedge anchors, the steel get's rusty and they look like shit, but they only look that way - they don't crank out. I figure that in a horizontal placement where it's been drilled straight down and is in moisture all the time, if you can't pull it straight out and use the same hole, leave it be. I learned this by going up to the Butte at the top of Jack of Hearts. Someone had removed a chain on one of the bolts that went straight down. They'd left this rusty crappy stud. As this thing rusted quickly then sat in water all the time for the next 20 years till I showed up, it looked like total 100% shit. I kept hearing complaints and fear about these old fuckers till finally I saw an otherwise unroped kid pull straight out while trying to wiggle over the edge and establish himself on rappel. I held my breath and was about to say a prayer waiting for them to pull right out in a tensile failure mode and the kid to auger in, and the resulting fatality -unfortunately right in front of my nose. This is something from experience I have learned to dislike more than anything in climbing. That is, watching a person die right in front of you. The wailing, crying and nashing of teeth of the loved ones left behind lingers in your memory.

 

But the kid lucked out and the damn things surprisingly held. So to prevent the next stupid ass who did this from dieing, I figured I'd start by replacing those 3 old wedge anchors as they were some of the worst looking out there. I just assumed from the way they looked that it would be an easy thing.

 

The plan was to simply lever the old ones out and put in the new stainless ones in the same holes. I show up with a 3' crowbar and am unsuccessful of budging a single one. I give up for the day but I come back with a larger 4' crowbar and after about a half hour of working on it and coming close to what I perceive to be blowing the rock out, I give up. I then added a single new chain with a monster 1/2 x 7" Stainless wedge anchor to back up the old bolts, which are still there.

 

Anyone who thinks that the old steel wedge anchors are crap is welcome to go out there and take a whack at pulling them. However, do not blow out the rock, and as they are put in the best location, use the same holes. I figure that there are not any that need replacement at Beacon, and if any are found, then folks can discuss that single bolt here or that other bolt over there, and choose to replace, back it up with a 2nd or as I currently feel for most of them, leave it alone. If they get replaced, hey, whatever, but there's something to be said for the patina of the old ones and learning that they will hold as you will certainly encounter worse most other spots you climb.

 

I've since just added a chain here or a chain there, but have generally learned to leave them be. I think that cranking off the stud, tapping it down and sealing the hole with epoxy is the best you can hope for for appearances, but not always the best thing to do. The best thing for most placements (not all, certainly not all) is probably to just leave it. At some point as it corrodes, someone with a long crowbar will be able to lever it out, and the hole can be reused with a new stainless wedge anchor installed.

 

That's my thoughts on that. Here's the way it plays out in person, and it's certainly not as pretty. Here are some of the better looking, less crappy looking ones where I added a single (painted stainless) chain so that total failure won't happen and kill some kid.

 

[Mr. Hands]

 

Why would you replace an anchor with a crap set up like that. USE A FUCKING HANGER!!!!

[JosephH]

[Sorry, meant as a reply to Bill, not Mr. Hands]

 

The rock on most of p1 and lower p2 of YW is too soft to try and pull the old bolts without destroying the rock, I know, I tried to reuse those exact holes and stopped. Again, two of the bolts we're ok for another couple of years, the rest popped right off with less than a full turn of the wrench and had cross-sections that sucked as bad as I thought they would. They're now 1/2" SS in virtually the same locations they were in for climbing purposes, all went in at a known year, and will last long past the time anyone arguing here will ever give a shit.

 

As I said, get on the route and let me know how it's any different at all to climb. I'd love to hear given my objective was to insure there wasn't any difference. Again, if I were retrobolting it half the bolts on p1 would be gone.

[billcoe]

Why would you replace an anchor with a crap set up like that. USE A FUCKING HANGER!!!!

 

Yeah, yeah yeah. I have a barrel of stainless Fixes in the basement. Maybe 2 barrels. I have no problem leaving hangers behind.....other places. I've recently put in and left 358 of them, the big 1/2 diameter ones. Stainless. But that was where they can be expected to be left unmolested for a while and on new routes. Not at this location as these are established routes and there is no need.

 

In fact I did put in a single set of the Stainless Fixe chain anchors out here: the ones which have the hanger integrated into them, and have been waiting to see how long they stay there. CC.com poster Lodestone jumped in and was able to get one of the bolts pulled out with that 4' crowbar and we reused that hole. The other one snapped, but he had it loose and it was close. It was the first time I've heard of a 3/8 being reused. Greg Barnes of the ASPCA says he gave up on being able to reuse a 3/8 hole.

 

We're at about 2 months they've been there I think and they have not been molested .....yet. I Loctited them down, but that's no guarantee they'll be there tomorrow when someone pulls them for their project elsewhere. I go look to see if they are still there everytime I'm in the vicinity and have been amazed that they have lasted this long.

 

The chains are plenty strong, that's a 1/2" diameter bolt, it's bigger and stronger than what was traditionally utilized up there since @ 1980 (3/8 x 3 studs and steel chain)- and chain is used because it tends to be left alone. However, if you would like to donate the hardware or the money to see how long until your shiny new hangers last till some chump yanks them for a project he's working elsewhere, step up. Sad, but from what I've seen they have about a 15 min life expectancy from when you first turn your head and some douche with a wrench shows up I'd say.

[area51]

isn't this where bill chimes in and points out how great of a guy joseph is an how we should all thank him for all his hard work....

 

Since Bill won't I will! I thank Joseph each time I clip into those Metolius rap anchors. And I thank him each time he helps me out on my software.

 

Paul Cou sar

[Mr. Hands]

Hey mr Hands, Thanks for posting that even though it wasn't met for you, but my biking/climbing buddies from Seattle. I think you're a friggin troll and a lameass, hiding behind the internet. You just started posting yesterday and you want to step forward and show your face or are you just a chickenshit artist like I think you are?

FYI, that was the first time I used a Silent Partner 3 years ago and I thought was on a 5.6 Broadway, but ended up on the first pitch of Young Warriors by mistake. Whoopde doo, what the fwk business is it of yours what I do?

 

 

WAZZUP stevetimetravlr?!?!?! No more slick well thought out responses?!?!!?